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When Should Bars Cut You Off?
Dear Helena,
The other day I was in a bar waiting for my boyfriend when the bartender set a martini before me. Indicating a guy sitting a few stools down, he said, “The gentleman over there sent this over.” I smiled at the guy but stayed where I was. As I was taking my first sip, he came over and started talking to me. I told him I had a boyfriend, and he got in a huff, like I’d led him on. If someone sends you a drink, is it OK to accept if you’re not interested in them? In any case, isn’t sending people drinks a little creepy?
—Martini Gal
Dear Martini Gal,
Getting sent a drink from a stranger makes many people feel uncomfortable. “It’s the same as if you go on a first date and take her somewhere expensive. She’ll think, ‘Is he expecting sex if he spends all this money?’” says “Savoy,” president of Love Systems (formerly Mystery Method), which offers workshops in the art of picking up women (and whose practitioners adopt fake names). Well, it’s not the same thing exactly. But having a drink set in front of you, already paid for, presents a serious etiquette dilemma for the recipient who’s not interested in the buyer.
Here’s the best way to handle the situation.
1. Decline the drink. There’s no such thing as a free drink. The cocktail is a form of barter. “Most guys think if they buy a drink for her, the woman is now obligated to talk to them,” says Jason Kosmas, co-owner of the New York bar Employees Only and coauthor of You Didn’t Hear It from Us, a women’s guide to picking up men in bars. You don’t have to offer the drink to the bartender or anyone else. Once you’ve declined, Kosmas says, “the bartender will take it from there.”
2. Say thank you. Even though you’re not interested in the person, politeness demands that you say thank you, the same way you’d thank a stranger for a compliment. If you want, you can throw in an excuse: “Thanks—but I have a [boyfriend/girlfriend/am in the middle of a messy divorce].” After telling the bartender you’re refusing the drink, ask him or her to deliver your message. “We don’t mind being go-betweens,” says Kosmas.
3. Shun flirtation. When the person who sends the drink is cute, it’s tempting to let him know (directly or via the bartender) that you’d happily get drunk with him if you were single. But this might be taken as a come-on. “If guys think there’s any chance in hell they think they might end up with a girl,” says Kosmas, “they’ll keep on pursuing her, especially when they’re liquored up.” He adds: “Why would you let him know you think he’s attractive unless you’re interested in him?”
4. Establish a boundary. People don’t always take no for an answer, particularly when they’re drunk. So use body language to reinforce your message. San Francisco bartender Duggan McDonnell, who has worked at the Redwood Room and Cantina, among other San Francisco bars, advises: “If you’re with a friend or partner, focus your attention on them. If possible, turn your back on the person who sent the drinks.” But according to Savoy, you shouldn’t worry too much about offending the person. “Guys that are sending drinks in bars are pretty used to getting rejected.”
BostonbarGuy is the voice of bar etiquette, for sure.
I would only say that when the bartender asks if somebody can buy you a drink and you don't wish to accept, you only need to say "thank you but no thank you"- no explanation is necessary. in fact, if you're turning the drink down, do you think they care if you have a boyfriend or girlfriend or messy divorce on board?
Well you should not buy someone a drink with out asking first. They may have had their limit and should be on their way home etc.
I recently had a young lady (half my age) offer to buy me a drink, after her insisting several times I took it. I also took the second one too. She just wanted to buy an old man a drink. LOL
I realise I am about a month late to this party but the posting was a nice break in my work day.
A few points from a NY'r who travels internationally, a lot, for business. On the isle of Manhattan, if out with your group, it is a bit like the UK, whoever is in need of a drink and going to fetch checks if anyone else is in need. It all comes out in the wash as they say.
Buying a drink for a...+READ
I realise I am about a month late to this party but the posting was a nice break in my work day.
A few points from a NY'r who travels internationally, a lot, for business. On the isle of Manhattan, if out with your group, it is a bit like the UK, whoever is in need of a drink and going to fetch checks if anyone else is in need. It all comes out in the wash as they say.
Buying a drink for a total stranger is common place; most bartenders ask before mixing & pouring so I completely agree with BBG (as hard as it is for a Yankee fan to agree w/anything Boston right now, but that's another blog), a good bartender makes all the difference. Having also been a bartender I have seen the purchase of drinks used to diffuse arguments (ironic) 2 strangers fighting over a score or RBI stats, etc.; friend of one steps in & offers to buy drinks for the 2 so they can agree to disagree, shake & place nice.
Moving on to the reason I decided to jump into the fray here:
Situation: You & 3 friends are out to dinner; Man comes to table, shakes hands w/one friend, been so long... great to see you... how've you been...; barkeep, set my friends over here up; great thanks! Good to see you stay in touch, returns to his end of the bar to his 2 companions.
Background: turns out this man is my friend's Union boss boss;
Drinks come; bartender puts them down with compliments of Homer Simpson (well done barkeep); we turn, toast a Thank you Homer! and spend 5 minutes discussing whether we should return the favour or not.
In big cities like NY this can become almost like a tennis match; they buy, we return, they return, we return, until you're all on the floor & nobody can pay the tab!
So Chow'ers what's your take?-COLLAPSE
why didn't request another one for her boyfriend? she should have been like "thanks! can you get one from my boyfriend, he's coming in any second" and if the gent says sure, drink on but keep an eye on him, he may be a freak. nonono .. don't accept the drink from anyone that you don't know EVER unless you don't need that kidney and like ice baths .. I've been watching too many conspiracy movies...+READ
why didn't request another one for her boyfriend? she should have been like "thanks! can you get one from my boyfriend, he's coming in any second" and if the gent says sure, drink on but keep an eye on him, he may be a freak. nonono .. don't accept the drink from anyone that you don't know EVER unless you don't need that kidney and like ice baths .. I've been watching too many conspiracy movies lately :)-COLLAPSE
Regarding England - slightly different bar ettiquite. When I've been drinking in a group (friends and/or colleagues), one rarely buys only only one's own drink. If you're thirsty and finishing your drink, you see who else at the table needs a drink, and go off to buy the round. While that spirit exists in America too, it's so prevalent there that buying a drink for someone you've just started...+READ
Regarding England - slightly different bar ettiquite. When I've been drinking in a group (friends and/or colleagues), one rarely buys only only one's own drink. If you're thirsty and finishing your drink, you see who else at the table needs a drink, and go off to buy the round. While that spirit exists in America too, it's so prevalent there that buying a drink for someone you've just started talking to may not rise to the level of manners - and is different from the stated case of a "sent drink", which I suspect is similar cross-pond, but have never experienced.-COLLAPSE
I agree with MiriamWoodstock. I'll go further and note that many in bars have limits on how many drinks they can consume. Perhaps the letter writer has a limit of one or two drinks and refused to consume more. Alcoholism is enough of a problem as it is; no one should have to drink an extra martini or any additional alcoholic beverage.
It should also be noted that many in bars drink water (as...+READ
I agree with MiriamWoodstock. I'll go further and note that many in bars have limits on how many drinks they can consume. Perhaps the letter writer has a limit of one or two drinks and refused to consume more. Alcoholism is enough of a problem as it is; no one should have to drink an extra martini or any additional alcoholic beverage.
It should also be noted that many in bars drink water (as was noted) or sodas such as Pepsi or Coca-Cola. But probably the best way to avoid such problems would be to stay out of bars altogether.-COLLAPSE
Having been on both sides of the bar and having sent drinks to others with no strings attached - let me just say cheers for any bartender that asks first before serving the drink. However, should this not occur, you are under no obligation but lets be honest folks - we can all use a little courtesty and pleasantness in our lives. Does it really hurt to acknowledge the gesture, have a few brief...+READ
Having been on both sides of the bar and having sent drinks to others with no strings attached - let me just say cheers for any bartender that asks first before serving the drink. However, should this not occur, you are under no obligation but lets be honest folks - we can all use a little courtesty and pleasantness in our lives. Does it really hurt to acknowledge the gesture, have a few brief moments of conversation, a sincere thank you and move on if that's what you desire? Having said that, its best to follow above "rules" - get up off your barstool and say thank you -then you control the situation. And anyone who is upset that you then indicate you have a boy/girlfriend isn't someone you want to be in conversation with anyway.-COLLAPSE
No stress, sometimes I post when I've had a few also, like now!!! -BG
Yeah - I was rambling - I tend to do that late at night when I'm supposed to be working. In response to your Q, I just think it's nice to ask someone first, and then ask what he/she'd like to drink, but other than that, I think it's very generous to buy someone a drink.
How is buying a drink for someone without asking "paternalistic"??
Your post is confusing.
I think that much of the commentary here is right on, but I'd like to pick up on two fine points:
One, there's a difference between ordering a drink for someone without asking and asking a woman if you can buy her a drink. The former is rather paternalistic, the latter is what I consider a thoughtful thing to do.
Also, lots of people keep mentioning that one can turn down a drink by saying,...+READ
I think that much of the commentary here is right on, but I'd like to pick up on two fine points:
One, there's a difference between ordering a drink for someone without asking and asking a woman if you can buy her a drink. The former is rather paternalistic, the latter is what I consider a thoughtful thing to do.
Also, lots of people keep mentioning that one can turn down a drink by saying, "I have a boyfriend." And if I find myself in the face of a sweet suitor, I may let him down nicely by saying with a chuckle, "If only I were single..." It flatters him, it tells him that I think highly enough of him to explain myself, and it also lets him know that I'm introducing a boundary. But if I don't feel kindly or affectionate towards the random suitor - if I feel neutral or negative towards him - I would never mention my boyfriend because then it's like suggesting I act based on my relations to the men around me (I owe an explanation to bar guy, I can't take drink because of boyfriend). If I'm put off (or plainly uninterested) in a suitor at a bar, I will not mention my boyfriend on principle: my polite rejection is my own - it's based on my beliefs, my preferences, and it has nothing to do with my obligations to another man. It has only to do with my obligations to doing what I'm comfortable with (which can include obligations to another man, but it's none of bar guy's business.)-COLLAPSE
I've always refused when offered a drink from people other than friends - and I never felt uncomfortable with that, but generally, it was a one on one transaction.
I did have one experience recently on a trip in London, where I was waiting at the bar, and started chatting with someone next to me. Not that I was ever interested, and I even have a boyfriend. When I got the bartender's attention,...+READ
I've always refused when offered a drink from people other than friends - and I never felt uncomfortable with that, but generally, it was a one on one transaction.
I did have one experience recently on a trip in London, where I was waiting at the bar, and started chatting with someone next to me. Not that I was ever interested, and I even have a boyfriend. When I got the bartender's attention, I offered to get my chatty neighbor a drink (not cheap, as it is now 2 dollars per GBP)- it was like what the heck, I'm partying in a foreign country, and I was drunk. Well the guy thanked me, and basically turned right along and slipped off without a "bye." I was a little taken aback - which was funny, I know, because I wasn't interested in him at all. Just another perspective there.-COLLAPSE
I think Ima has it right.
Take the drink, go over to the guy and set out the guidelines right away. If you're waiting for someone, tell them. If you're just not interested, tell them. Whatever you do, don't lie. They're not likely to leave you alone if you tell them you're waiting for someone but they don't come.
The bottom line is, it's a free drink (Yes it is) and there is absolutely no...+READ
I think Ima has it right.
Take the drink, go over to the guy and set out the guidelines right away. If you're waiting for someone, tell them. If you're just not interested, tell them. Whatever you do, don't lie. They're not likely to leave you alone if you tell them you're waiting for someone but they don't come.
The bottom line is, it's a free drink (Yes it is) and there is absolutely no harm is a polite little conversation. Heck, how do you even know who he is. Maybe he's/she's the one.
BBG is also right, a good bartender can defuse a lot of situations.
DT-COLLAPSE
I agree completely with Bob. I go out and eat at the bar in restaurants alone or with a date all the time, usually 5 nights a week. People who eat at the bar realize that there's a lot that goes with the territory. Obviously it's more social, there's more opportunity to interact with people on either side of you, if you choose to. Millions of people have met potential dates/future partners by...+READ
I agree completely with Bob. I go out and eat at the bar in restaurants alone or with a date all the time, usually 5 nights a week. People who eat at the bar realize that there's a lot that goes with the territory. Obviously it's more social, there's more opportunity to interact with people on either side of you, if you choose to. Millions of people have met potential dates/future partners by noticing them at a bar and initiating a meeting by going over and introducing themselves or offering to send them a drink to express their interest. I've heard so many horror stories from women friends who tell me that men on first dates have asked them to help pay the tab, what losers. So much for chivalry. So I believe that a woman, or man(I wish) should be flattered when someone offers to buy them a drink. It's been a perfectly acceptable way to break the ice for the last 29 years that I have been seated at or working behind the bar. The person offering is only being presumptuous if they are cocky and think the chance of acceptance is 100%. In my opinion it's not creepy at all, it's a polite way to initiate an introduction. In fact, I've seen many women react in a positive surprised way like, "Wow, that's flattering, how polite".-COLLAPSE
One can interpret any action in its worst possible light, if you choose to do so.
Oops! I meant alcohol-consumption premises, of course, not alcohol-consuming. I don't think the bars themselves drink (or do they?)
Then I'm guessing you're either under 21 or don't spend time in bars. It's been an acceptable method of meeting the opposite (or same, if you're gay) sex in alcohol-consuming premises for a very, very long time. As long as it's done politely and courteously, of course, as has been spelled out repeatedly above.
I think it's incredibly presumptuous--and pretty creepy--to buy a drink for a complete stranger.
If you want to go to a bar, I feel you should be ready to pay for your own drinks. If a drink appears before you, you should take the drink, thank the guy, and go over and talk to him--if you're looking for conversation that night.
If you're not looking to get hit on, tell the bartender "please tell him thank you, but I have a boyfriend/I'm waiting for a friend/etc." The polite thing, of...+READ
If you want to go to a bar, I feel you should be ready to pay for your own drinks. If a drink appears before you, you should take the drink, thank the guy, and go over and talk to him--if you're looking for conversation that night.
If you're not looking to get hit on, tell the bartender "please tell him thank you, but I have a boyfriend/I'm waiting for a friend/etc." The polite thing, of course, would be for the guy to say "It's no problem, please enjoy the drink" and then walk away so the woman doesn't feel like he's staring her down waiting for her to change his mind. Point being, a bar is a place where singles go to meet other singles, but there should be a graceful way to navigate the scene if you're just there for drinks and want to be left alone.
It's incredibly rude to take someone's money and then ignore him, I think. If you think buying drinks for strangers makes him a creepy man and you don't want to talk to him, then don't cheapen yourself by drinking it.
If people would show a little class, going out to bars wouldn't be so potentially sleazy.-COLLAPSE
When someone purchases a drink for me without asking first, I will usually walk over to them and thank them for the gesture. This does the following:
1. It keeps them in their space and out of mine.
2. It shows me making an extra effort to thank them. (I don't stay parked on my barstool sucking up free booze without showing gratitude)
3. It allows me to explain my situation (with friends,...+READ
When someone purchases a drink for me without asking first, I will usually walk over to them and thank them for the gesture. This does the following:
1. It keeps them in their space and out of mine.
2. It shows me making an extra effort to thank them. (I don't stay parked on my barstool sucking up free booze without showing gratitude)
3. It allows me to explain my situation (with friends, waiting for boyfriend, leaving soon, cranky and wanting to be alone - whatever the case may be) without asking them to leave me alone because I can walk away from them. They're not being shot down and having to do the walk of shame back to their chair/table.
All that said, I prefer to be asked first. I have and will turn down a drink if I've hit my limit or don't want any more.-COLLAPSE
Again, rookie bartender. The bartender sets himself up for failure when he doesn't tell the sender that he'll offer the intended recipient a drink before making it, it's that simple. If the bartender is incompetent, green or afraid of his "punk"(and drunk), regular customer then you should have stuck to your guns and told him, no thank you. If at that point the bartender didn't want to waste the...+READ
Again, rookie bartender. The bartender sets himself up for failure when he doesn't tell the sender that he'll offer the intended recipient a drink before making it, it's that simple. If the bartender is incompetent, green or afraid of his "punk"(and drunk), regular customer then you should have stuck to your guns and told him, no thank you. If at that point the bartender didn't want to waste the drink he could have said that it was on him. I have witnessed hundreds of women accepting drinks from drunk assholes and then complaining that the guy won't leave them alone(which brings up another issue about inept management). In my opinion, women need to be tougher when it comes to sending a message. If the message is no, say no, and if someone won't leave you alone, get a manager. If you're not interested, say so. If you're meeting a girlfriend you haven't seen for a long time and want to get caught up with her, tell the vultures(usually married) that you'd appreciate it if they would respect your privacey and then turn your back on them. If they persist, get a manager and just hope he/she has the guts to do the right thing so you can enjoy the rest of your night with your girlfriend or resume your search for Mr. Right. It's not easy, I know!!!!!-COLLAPSE
Well what happens if you're at a bar and you order a drink, and when the bartender delivers it you're told that a guy at the other end of the bar is paying for it?
That happened to me in Kansas City, and I was with friends and had just come from an event, evening gown and all. I was ordering my 2nd drink when I was informed by the bartender that a sloppy college-aged guy who didn't even make...+READ
Well what happens if you're at a bar and you order a drink, and when the bartender delivers it you're told that a guy at the other end of the bar is paying for it?
That happened to me in Kansas City, and I was with friends and had just come from an event, evening gown and all. I was ordering my 2nd drink when I was informed by the bartender that a sloppy college-aged guy who didn't even make eye contact with me was paying for it. I told the bartender, no thank you, I'll pay for it myself, but he told me to just go ahead and let him pay for it, because the guy would give him trouble if I paid. The bartender wouldn't let me pay. That was a sticky situation to be in, but what was I to do? I took my drink back to my friends' table and didn't get approached by the guy all night, thank goodness.-COLLAPSE
Wow, when did this site descend into the gutter? I guess it just takes one person to post an off-colour joke.
BostonBar, I've been enjoying your posts on this topic. Not only are they commonsensical, but clearly you speak with the right degree of authority and experience.
Very nice.
Tell the guy you don't really want the drink, but you'll blow him for $10.
I absolutely believe that accepting a drink is an invitation and that you have an obligation to say thank you and engage in conversation unless you are a user and a bitch. In my opinion, a polite woman wouldn't accept a drink unless she was available, interested and willing to say thank you and expect some follow-up conversation. Isn't that one of the oldest known rules of the jungle? I bartended...+READ
I absolutely believe that accepting a drink is an invitation and that you have an obligation to say thank you and engage in conversation unless you are a user and a bitch. In my opinion, a polite woman wouldn't accept a drink unless she was available, interested and willing to say thank you and expect some follow-up conversation. Isn't that one of the oldest known rules of the jungle? I bartended for 20 years and it is in my book.-COLLAPSE
I don't believe that accepting a drink is an invitation. The drink has already been paid for and made, and it's not like the bartender will give the money back if she refuses it or isn't single. Sending some booze to a stranger comes with a bit of a risk. Deal with it. Now, if she takes a sip, looks directly at you, and seductively licks her lips before she shoots you down...well, sorry, but...+READ
I don't believe that accepting a drink is an invitation. The drink has already been paid for and made, and it's not like the bartender will give the money back if she refuses it or isn't single. Sending some booze to a stranger comes with a bit of a risk. Deal with it. Now, if she takes a sip, looks directly at you, and seductively licks her lips before she shoots you down...well, sorry, but you've just paid for some brutal witch to get drunk.
Point: If she's taken, you need to take it like a man.-COLLAPSE
Good point BostonBarGuy. As the recipient of many an unsolicited drink my my hey-day, I always felt bad refusing a drink that a bartender had spent all that time preparing. OK, so it is his job, but it was always better when the bartender told me someone wanted to buy me a drink, cause then, if I wanted to accept the drink, I got to choose my poison instead of slogging down a clear, dry martini...+READ
Good point BostonBarGuy. As the recipient of many an unsolicited drink my my hey-day, I always felt bad refusing a drink that a bartender had spent all that time preparing. OK, so it is his job, but it was always better when the bartender told me someone wanted to buy me a drink, cause then, if I wanted to accept the drink, I got to choose my poison instead of slogging down a clear, dry martini when I prefer them dirty.-COLLAPSE
I agree with BostonBarGuy. When I bartended I never made a drink without asking the lady, or occasionally the gentleman, if they wanted the drink the person wanted to buy for them. You're going to feel rude and wasteful for not accepting the already made drink. And then you're going to feel as though you have to speak to the person who bought you the drink.
I believe that a great bartender will first approach the intended recipient and say, "The gentleman in the blue shirt would like to buy you a drink". Common courtesy and common sense should prevail from there. That makes it easier on everyone. Too many inexperienced bartenders just send over the drink which opens up all of the issues described above. Just one guy's humble opinion.
Everybody here seems to be saying the same thing (except for that faulty analogy, that BobB corrected). I have never been in this situation, but I now know the appropriate way to behave.
I found this article interesting and informative.
I think you should wait to talk to the guy who sends you the keys to the $20,000 car. Maybe even buy him a drink. Give nobody $20,000.
Meh, I'd rather the guy came up to me and started talking, THEN offered me a drink. Why have the bartender do your dirty work? It makes you look like you've no balls.
As noted, bartenders are usually fine with acting as go-betweens. A simple, "please tell him I appreciate the offer, but no thank you, I'm waiting for my boyfriend/husband/friend...". It makes it clear you're not interested in your side of the implied contract, and leaves it his choice if he wishes to tell the bartender to leave it with you, no obligation.
Buying a drink for someone is a proposal for further interaction and refusal by the targeted person is certainly within his/her right. If you don't feel like meeting someone new...... then don't take the bait.
As my favorit drink is ice water, I would say thank you, but nothanks you. But you can say that your boyfrind on whom you are wating for, surely will like the dring, so thank you.
Your analogy isn't that far off point, but you're missing one crucial element in your analysis: If someone brings you a car and says, "Here you go, now give me $20,000," you don't owe him a thing, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T KEEP THE CAR. In the original discussion, the question was whether to keep the proffered drink or refuse it. Refuse it and there is no obligation whatsoever. Accept it and there is...+READ
Your analogy isn't that far off point, but you're missing one crucial element in your analysis: If someone brings you a car and says, "Here you go, now give me $20,000," you don't owe him a thing, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T KEEP THE CAR. In the original discussion, the question was whether to keep the proffered drink or refuse it. Refuse it and there is no obligation whatsoever. Accept it and there is a minimal obligation to have a polite chat. Your choice.-COLLAPSE
You're saying that you can obligate a woman to have a conversation with you by sending her a drink. Even that brief social contract - I'll send you a drink, you have to talk to me - is a contract, and needs to be agreed upon by both parties. You can't obligate someone one-sidedly. That would be like a car salesman driving up to your house and saying, "I brought you this car, you have to give me...+READ
You're saying that you can obligate a woman to have a conversation with you by sending her a drink. Even that brief social contract - I'll send you a drink, you have to talk to me - is a contract, and needs to be agreed upon by both parties. You can't obligate someone one-sidedly. That would be like a car salesman driving up to your house and saying, "I brought you this car, you have to give me $20,000." It may be acceptable to the salesman, but the other party hasn't agreed. Maybe you find the analogy not quite on point. Let's say I agree to meet a friend at a car lot. Someone walks over and says, "The salesman at the end of the counter has sent you the keys to that nice car. Please give him $20,000." Being an a car lot doesn't obligate me to exchange money for a car; being in a bar doesn't obligate a woman to exchange conversation for a drink.-COLLAPSE
I agree; but that's just it--she owes the person who bought the drink conversation. That's still a social transaction. And conversations tend to carry on, especially with the addition of a social lubricant. I s'pose the simple message is that if you don't feel like meeting someone new and you don't feel like wrangling your way out of it when you're ready to move on, best to buy your own booze.
I say b.s. If a man buys a woman a drink, she is perfectly within her socio-behavioral rights to drink it without leading the guy on. It's a $5 martini, not an engagement ring. Of course, she owes the person who bought the drink simple conversation...that's politeness...but nothing more. Society will break down if our only inter-gender contact with each other comes in the form of sexual commodity...+READ
I say b.s. If a man buys a woman a drink, she is perfectly within her socio-behavioral rights to drink it without leading the guy on. It's a $5 martini, not an engagement ring. Of course, she owes the person who bought the drink simple conversation...that's politeness...but nothing more. Society will break down if our only inter-gender contact with each other comes in the form of sexual commodity trading. Take the drink, make polite conversation, and let the chips fall where they may.-COLLAPSE
Ooh, the famous Mystery Method of Neil Strauss's book" The Game." According to Strauss, Jason Kosmas' advice is right on. The drink is more than a drink; it's an invitation to let the sender start the chat-up. Your job as recipient is to RSVP...