Game Meat Grub for the Big Game
Sunflower-Seed Milk Substitute
Low-Fat Fish Dishes
Faux Pas: The Chef Was Texting
Open a Beer with a Piece of Paper
Belgian Brewers Are Copying Us!
The only reality show with a rule against “sensual” touching boots Cliff Crooks.
Crooks talks with Joyce Slaton, proclaiming his love for Fluffernutter and The Real Housewives of Orange County, unsuccessfully traverses Wikipedia for a definition for black bone (we like the one kept in a mojo bag), and explains how Marcel’s hair proved impervious to the blade of the Top Chef razor.
Listen to other Top Chef podcasts:
Michael Midgley
Betty Fraser
Mia Gaines
Frank Terzoli
Carlos Fernandez
Marisa Churchill and Josie Smith-Malave
Emily Sprissler
Otto Borsich
Suyai Steinhauer and Judge Tom Colicchio
For a full overview of this episode, check out TV.com.
greengage,
It is quite a few months later, but I was rereading this line of posts for some reason and thought I'd respond to you.
My son was 12 before I finally broke down and said he could dye his hair blue (he immediately went into the pool at camp and it turned green) but when I finally did, I found that I had way fewer fights with him about things because I had finally realized that I...+READ
greengage,
It is quite a few months later, but I was rereading this line of posts for some reason and thought I'd respond to you.
My son was 12 before I finally broke down and said he could dye his hair blue (he immediately went into the pool at camp and it turned green) but when I finally did, I found that I had way fewer fights with him about things because I had finally realized that I needed to think about what was important to me instead of just going with my gut reaction. He is now 19 and a sophomore in college, he still wears his hair strangely sometimes, but he is doing well, he is healthy, and we are friends. Don't sweat the stuff that isn't important, like how your child wears his/her hair, but rather focus on things that will help them grow into responsible and trustworthy teens.-COLLAPSE
I have a lot of respect for any cook/chef and more for those who compete to see who can be the best. When it comes to competition, the judges are not there to judge who does the coolest practical joke or who has the most emotional outburst. The competition is on cooking. Tough luck to Cliff, but assault is assault and the rules quite plainly assert that no one may touch another competitor in an...+READ
I have a lot of respect for any cook/chef and more for those who compete to see who can be the best. When it comes to competition, the judges are not there to judge who does the coolest practical joke or who has the most emotional outburst. The competition is on cooking. Tough luck to Cliff, but assault is assault and the rules quite plainly assert that no one may touch another competitor in an unprofessional way--which involves assault. Cligg should consider himself lucky that no charges were filed.-COLLAPSE
first of all, it sounds like the interviewer was quite taken with cliff's "charming" personality. not exactly the poster gal for feminism; thanks for setting us all back 10 years.
this whole scenario was so f'd by re-editing to make the 4 perps look like it was a drunken "joke" that went too far. did anyone hear elia say she doesn't drink? that's what she said in her podcast. so, drunken excuses...+READ
first of all, it sounds like the interviewer was quite taken with cliff's "charming" personality. not exactly the poster gal for feminism; thanks for setting us all back 10 years.
this whole scenario was so f'd by re-editing to make the 4 perps look like it was a drunken "joke" that went too far. did anyone hear elia say she doesn't drink? that's what she said in her podcast. so, drunken excuses for her involvement don't apply. also - didja notice anyone "drunk"? i mean, you don't have to be stumbling or vomiting, but everyone seemed pretty on point to me.
to nyprof, marcel and elia were playing together in the surf. no gang rape against anybody's will was involved. totally different scenario. recall the judges table post clippergate and hear marcel vouch that he was asking cliff to stop.
re: racism: please. cliff was the chosen pawn-du-jour of ilan to do his dirty work. probably because ilan couldn't tackle anything. cliff made a poor judgement call. as far as racism goes, however - i despise the whole group equally. and while there is no tolerance for physical violence i have no tolerance for verbal abuse either. marcel endured being dumped on verbally in public by betty, frank, ilan and sam. it can be just as painful, if not more. if we're talking about race here, i think mia had more character and morals than sam, elia and marcel combined. too bad she took the hit for elia and threw herself under the bus in her place.
it's not the race card, it's the a**hole card, and they ALL GET ONE. (cliff, sam, elia, and ILAN)-COLLAPSE
I think everyone needs to get a small grip here. I mean COME ON, these arguments are so nausiating. NO ONE is that dumb that we don't realize that what Cliff did could be compared to assult and battery. We HAVE established that fact; but what you people seem to forget is that THIS is a REALITY TV SHOW. Every single one of these people were chosen not only for their skills as chefs but also...+READ
I think everyone needs to get a small grip here. I mean COME ON, these arguments are so nausiating. NO ONE is that dumb that we don't realize that what Cliff did could be compared to assult and battery. We HAVE established that fact; but what you people seem to forget is that THIS is a REALITY TV SHOW. Every single one of these people were chosen not only for their skills as chefs but also because they have visual and oral personality. What we have here are people who could pass as amateur actors. They are encouraged to put on a "show" in front of the camera. Now before some of you psychos start bloging stupid things like "you mean to say they are encourage to assault others?" let me say NOOOOOO I am not saying that. They still make their own character choices. Cliff made a bad one. But come on!! If the would have been following the "letter of the law" Elia, Ilan and Cliff would have had to been kicked off the show and arrested. They were playing their part...they just did it badly. Someone had to take the fall to make it LOOK like it was a serious assualt and not a character choice to add excitement to the show. TV is still TV whether or not they put "REALITY" before it or not.-COLLAPSE
No, janethebrain7, I don't think LA hound was accusing the show of racism. Cliff deserved to be booted and no one, including Cliff, disputes it. LA hound was accusing some posters on this board of racism and I'm beginning to think he or she is right. The negative reaction toward Cliff has the hysterical tone of a mob. "Rape?" Are you kidding? Marcel tackling Elia on the beach was just as close to...+READ
No, janethebrain7, I don't think LA hound was accusing the show of racism. Cliff deserved to be booted and no one, including Cliff, disputes it. LA hound was accusing some posters on this board of racism and I'm beginning to think he or she is right. The negative reaction toward Cliff has the hysterical tone of a mob. "Rape?" Are you kidding? Marcel tackling Elia on the beach was just as close to rape and there was no outrage at all over that. That kind of overreaction sounds like it comes from an atavistic fear of the black man.-COLLAPSE
Just started reading the other posts and am astonished that the race card was thrown in. Cliff is not the victim of racism. The difference between what Cliff did and what the other jerks did is this: Cliff did not threaten Marcel, but grabbed him, held him in submission against his will, and shoved Marcel's head onto the floor. The other chefs are complicit in creating a non-safe environment for...+READ
Just started reading the other posts and am astonished that the race card was thrown in. Cliff is not the victim of racism. The difference between what Cliff did and what the other jerks did is this: Cliff did not threaten Marcel, but grabbed him, held him in submission against his will, and shoved Marcel's head onto the floor. The other chefs are complicit in creating a non-safe environment for Marcel, but Cliff actually carried out their threats.
If you think that this is all jokes and laughs, then I ask you- what would you do if somebody who you know has only contempt for you grabbed you out of bed while you were asleep, held you down, while all the other drunks were laughing and screaming "Get him." Had it been me, I would have killed Cliff out of terror, because I would automatically think rape. If smashing one's face into the ground in the middle of their sleep is just for kicks, then I hope that someone does that to Joyce, or Cliff's Mom, Sam's Mom, Ilan's girlfriend, Elia, or God help the man, Betty. Then let's see if those gals think it's all funny boy games.-COLLAPSE
Hey Joyce, you're right about the assualt being edited to look like a Jodie Foster movie- but the movie it most resembled was that scene in "The Accused" where Jodie gets gang-raped on a pinball machine while all the other guys who are waiting their turn egg the first rapist on. Thanks for validating Cliff and his pack in raping Marcel of his dignity.
I think a lot of people need to lighten up! It was a mistake, pure and simple. Cliff received a consequence and accepted it graciously. I was disappointed that he didn't make it to the end but suspect Marcel is the producers choice anyway.
I liked the interview!
dinwiddie--LOL! As the parent of a pre-teen who yearns for blue hair, I like that you found the "upside" of the blue mohawk!
I was going to respond, but you are right. The vitrol leveled at Cliff for being immature and stupid is enough.
greengage and LA hound are right. The amount of vitriol aimed at Cliff is way beyond what is reasonable. Is everyone forgetting when Marcel said he "accidently, on purpose, tackled Elia in the surf" when they were at the beach? She went down, too. Marcel, small as he is, surely weighs more than Elia. She could have been hurt, too. I think it's pretty threatening and gross to be tackled by Marcel...+READ
greengage and LA hound are right. The amount of vitriol aimed at Cliff is way beyond what is reasonable. Is everyone forgetting when Marcel said he "accidently, on purpose, tackled Elia in the surf" when they were at the beach? She went down, too. Marcel, small as he is, surely weighs more than Elia. She could have been hurt, too. I think it's pretty threatening and gross to be tackled by Marcel under any circumstances. Why aren't all of you angry about that?-COLLAPSE
And greengage, if you have a son (or daughter) I certainly hope you are a responsible enough parent to realize that how he or she wears their hair is not an issue. I don't like the way my son often wears his hair (though the blue mohawk he sported for a while did make him easy to find in a crowd) but nobody, not a coworker, friend, or parent has the right to, or even threaten to, hold someone...+READ
And greengage, if you have a son (or daughter) I certainly hope you are a responsible enough parent to realize that how he or she wears their hair is not an issue. I don't like the way my son often wears his hair (though the blue mohawk he sported for a while did make him easy to find in a crowd) but nobody, not a coworker, friend, or parent has the right to, or even threaten to, hold someone down and shave their head.-COLLAPSE
"Ok, so I'm going to get slammed, but not being much past the "frat" stage in life myself, I have to say I agree with Joyce's comments on her take of what was going on with the Marcel situation. Being female, that kind of physical thing didn't happen in our sorority, but the frat that I was a little sister of had plenty of those kind of things going on. It was all part of the comradery and...+READ
"Ok, so I'm going to get slammed, but not being much past the "frat" stage in life myself, I have to say I agree with Joyce's comments on her take of what was going on with the Marcel situation. Being female, that kind of physical thing didn't happen in our sorority, but the frat that I was a little sister of had plenty of those kind of things going on. It was all part of the comradery and practical joking."
Unfortunately my brother just had to expel three "frat" boys for the same type of behaviour. They got drunk, decided to play a harmless prank on one of the pledges whilde he was asleep, and that pledge is now going to spend quite a few months in PT to be able to use his left arm properly. And the three "boys," they are currently awaiting their trial for assault; the pledge didn't bring the charges, the college did.-COLLAPSE
greengage--alot of people don't like my hair-do. I have long, blonde silky hair. And I can sometimes be a brat. Does anyone get to shave my head? Does anyone get to wake me up and scare me?
Plus, it was my impression that no one in production saw what happened until the next morning and they took immediate action at that time.
Here's the thing. This is still TV - and I am sure a whole lot of editing went on that we are not privvy to. What Cliff did was wrong, and he admitted it on air. What I find interesting is that nobody in the production (camera crew, etc) didn't stop it. Because they didnt I would place blame there as well. I don't care for Marcel, and think he's annoying, but he didnt deserve to be humiliated...+READ
Here's the thing. This is still TV - and I am sure a whole lot of editing went on that we are not privvy to. What Cliff did was wrong, and he admitted it on air. What I find interesting is that nobody in the production (camera crew, etc) didn't stop it. Because they didnt I would place blame there as well. I don't care for Marcel, and think he's annoying, but he didnt deserve to be humiliated like that. And the blame doesnt only go to Cliff, but to the entire Top Chef production crew.-COLLAPSE
dkstar--the point is it didn't escalate to "serious assault," Marcel's hair did NOT get cut off, and to judge it as such is disingenuous. The mood, while certainly drunk and stupid, did NOT suggest to me a Lord-of-the-Flies assault, nor do I think everyone would have stood by, video camera rolling, while a screaming Marcel was actually parted from his hair. That would've been quite a different...+READ
dkstar--the point is it didn't escalate to "serious assault," Marcel's hair did NOT get cut off, and to judge it as such is disingenuous. The mood, while certainly drunk and stupid, did NOT suggest to me a Lord-of-the-Flies assault, nor do I think everyone would have stood by, video camera rolling, while a screaming Marcel was actually parted from his hair. That would've been quite a different scenario.
That said, if Marcel were my son--snort--trust me, I would've shaved off that Bob's Big Boy hair-do long ago. Maybe if Marcel's mom was standing backstage during filming, he wouldn't be acting like such a brat.-COLLAPSE
For wont of perfect chocolate hearts, a crisis was born. Elia incited the head-shaving hysteria because she was "screwed" about her little chocolate hearts falling apart and wanted to wear a hair-shirt or flagellate herself or something. At least that's the sequence presented on TV. The rest of the frustrated "chefs" piled on, one way or another, while Marcel was asleep in the other room. The...+READ
For wont of perfect chocolate hearts, a crisis was born. Elia incited the head-shaving hysteria because she was "screwed" about her little chocolate hearts falling apart and wanted to wear a hair-shirt or flagellate herself or something. At least that's the sequence presented on TV. The rest of the frustrated "chefs" piled on, one way or another, while Marcel was asleep in the other room. The assault on Marcel (pulling him out of bed when he was fast asleep after a long day, wrestling him and tossing him about with threats of shaving his head) were barbaric. I felt for the guy.-COLLAPSE
altogether different story greengage.
This event wasn't fraternal in any way, shape or form. There is resentment toward Marcel from the group and it escalated to what could have been serious assault (cutting someone's hair off is more than just a mean thing to do in some cultures). Put another way, how would you feel if that were you? or your son?
You forget that Ilan was the one filming the...+READ
altogether different story greengage.
This event wasn't fraternal in any way, shape or form. There is resentment toward Marcel from the group and it escalated to what could have been serious assault (cutting someone's hair off is more than just a mean thing to do in some cultures). Put another way, how would you feel if that were you? or your son?
You forget that Ilan was the one filming the ordeal. The producers weren't there.
What happened there has nothing to do with teamwork nor does that have anything to do with what Bourdain deems appropriate behavior. And even if it did...this wasn't in the kitchen. And they aren't coworkers, they are contestants vying against one another. Two big differences.-COLLAPSE
OK, so he broke the rules, he got sent home, and he acted pretty damn gentlemanly about it. He was clearly contrite, he apologized, and he left. But show rules aside, just as a stand-alone incident--assault & battery? bullying? Come on people--this wasn't exactly a Code Red. Drunken, stupid, yes, but purely on a frat-house level. How "serious" an attack could've possibly taken place with cameras...+READ
OK, so he broke the rules, he got sent home, and he acted pretty damn gentlemanly about it. He was clearly contrite, he apologized, and he left. But show rules aside, just as a stand-alone incident--assault & battery? bullying? Come on people--this wasn't exactly a Code Red. Drunken, stupid, yes, but purely on a frat-house level. How "serious" an attack could've possibly taken place with cameras rolling, honestly? Marcel wasn't screaming or in any kind of pain; he was clearly embarassed and annoyed but was there really a question of imminent bodily harm here? There's more testosterone-fueled, boot-camp nastiness flying around most restaurant kitchens in one night than there was during that incident (I wish they'd filmed the follow-up scene afterwards when Cliff apparently threw candy-bars at him). I personally think that Marcel lacks the team-work and leadership skills necessary to helm a kitchen, but in any case, he'd better reread Anthony Bourdain and think hard about whether he can handle the rough and tumble that comes with the job.-COLLAPSE
For the sake of argument here, let's just say that Cliff's actions didn't legally constitute assult. Ok, fine. I'm basing my reaction to Cliff's banishment on Tom alluding to there being some rules that Cliff broke. The contestants obviously signed an agreement/contract that must have said, "You can't manhandle another contestant or judge."
You break the rules you go home, regardless of your...+READ
For the sake of argument here, let's just say that Cliff's actions didn't legally constitute assult. Ok, fine. I'm basing my reaction to Cliff's banishment on Tom alluding to there being some rules that Cliff broke. The contestants obviously signed an agreement/contract that must have said, "You can't manhandle another contestant or judge."
You break the rules you go home, regardless of your color, baby.
The producers have to send a message that breaking the overall rules isn't tolerated. If they don't who will want to go on this show, knowing that your physical well being isn't protected? This is Top Chef, not Fear Factor afterall.-COLLAPSE
er, interview.
an utterly contemptible review. horrible.
Ok, so I'm going to get slammed, but not being much past the "frat" stage in life myself, I have to say I agree with Joyce's comments on her take of what was going on with the Marcel situation. Being female, that kind of physical thing didn't happen in our sorority, but the frat that I was a little sister of had plenty of those kind of things going on. It was all part of the comradery and...+READ
Ok, so I'm going to get slammed, but not being much past the "frat" stage in life myself, I have to say I agree with Joyce's comments on her take of what was going on with the Marcel situation. Being female, that kind of physical thing didn't happen in our sorority, but the frat that I was a little sister of had plenty of those kind of things going on. It was all part of the comradery and practical joking. And I don't for second think that the media presentation didn't have a ton to do with how it "appeared" to us in tvland... That said, yes, Cliff deserved to be taken off. Yes, it was uncalled for in the "harsh light of day", but please people! We've all done stupid, juvenile things in our lives, so to trash Joyce for saying that's how she viewed it is ridiculous. To be honest, I think that everyone thus far has been far too nice to Marcel than he deserves and that this is the worst that happens to him is a miracle! I mean, the guy is a jerk!-COLLAPSE
Fellow Posters,
Me thinks we should leave L.A. Hound to his own cockeyed perseption of reality.
After all, he seems to think that he's arguing his point with just one other pertson...
"(though I'm getting the sneaking suspicion it's the same person using a few different screen names)."
Perhaps, it's just L.A. Hound arguing with himself.
Oh, and, while we're at it...any posts that include...+READ
Fellow Posters,
Me thinks we should leave L.A. Hound to his own cockeyed perseption of reality.
After all, he seems to think that he's arguing his point with just one other pertson...
"(though I'm getting the sneaking suspicion it's the same person using a few different screen names)."
Perhaps, it's just L.A. Hound arguing with himself.
Oh, and, while we're at it...any posts that include any semblance to the phrase "I'm not endorsing (Ilan's or Cliff's or Sam's or Elia's or Frank's or Betty's) behavior...," let's not even dignify those posts with a response...
(After a quick scan of a post reveals one of these offensive passages, I don't even bother to read the darn thing!)
So, let's all just continue to rant on as we please, and pay no mind to those who are bent on spoiling our fun.
RANT ON!!-COLLAPSE
The interviewer was wrong for bringing the subject up knowing that she was going to have a glib view of something that obviously has a lot of passion to it.
Cliff's actions were really ugly. This wasn't a loss of control at an silly situation (like Marcel's punching of the camera) this was clearly thought out (all be it poorly) and the calmness of Cliff's hold is a little disturbing. I think...+READ
The interviewer was wrong for bringing the subject up knowing that she was going to have a glib view of something that obviously has a lot of passion to it.
Cliff's actions were really ugly. This wasn't a loss of control at an silly situation (like Marcel's punching of the camera) this was clearly thought out (all be it poorly) and the calmness of Cliff's hold is a little disturbing. I think the fact that Marcel wasn't screaming, but instead had become very quiet shows that this attack felt serious from begining to end, not a prank gone wrong at all.
In all seriousness, when my wife and i first saw it we thought he was about to rape him. If the previous poster's comments about the order of events are true, than Bravo has indeed made a large mistake by not kicking them all off.-COLLAPSE
Do you think anyone's gotten into Elia's pants yet?
Legally, it wouldn't make much difference as the camera was clearly held close to Ilan's face (hence why the paparazzi often succeed in A&B claims against celebrities) but I've watched the footage several times and it appears to be a punch to the side of the head of the camera person, not a punch to the camera.
Suppose the next defense of Marcel will be whether his assault and battery involved...+READ
Legally, it wouldn't make much difference as the camera was clearly held close to Ilan's face (hence why the paparazzi often succeed in A&B claims against celebrities) but I've watched the footage several times and it appears to be a punch to the side of the head of the camera person, not a punch to the camera.
Suppose the next defense of Marcel will be whether his assault and battery involved an open-handed or close-handed blow?
Apologies, but these continued defenses of the double standard for Cliff vs. Others are getting increasingly ridiculous, and increasingly suspect. As absurd as me asking whether Cliff was putting all his body weight on Marcel when he wrestled him to the ground, or just some of this weight? These are equally rdiculous inquiries. Both men wrongly resorted to physical force. But only one was called out for it, and he sincerely apologized, and gracioiusly accepted his punishment (he was kicked off show without protest), the other has not.
Nevertheless, certain poster(s) on this site are solely interested in directing their unmitigated hatred and vitriol toward Cliff (and the interviewer for supposedly "flirting" him). Again, this selective sense of "justice" is highly suspect, and very suggestive of either conscious or subconscious racism toward Cliff.-COLLAPSE
Did Marcel punch a person or a camera?
MikeDS,
Actually it's not ridiculous at all to compare Marcel's assault and battery to Cliff's assault and battery. The Bravo rules dictate that physical violence to another cast member results in disqualification. Period. There is no exception merely because another cast member "provoked" the attack by holding a camera. I'm not endorsing Ilan's or Cliff's behavior (they both behaved like...+READ
MikeDS,
Actually it's not ridiculous at all to compare Marcel's assault and battery to Cliff's assault and battery. The Bravo rules dictate that physical violence to another cast member results in disqualification. Period. There is no exception merely because another cast member "provoked" the attack by holding a camera. I'm not endorsing Ilan's or Cliff's behavior (they both behaved like idiots) but again, there is a double standard for acceptable behavior when it comes to Cliff and Marcel - both by Bravo as well as certain people on this site (though I'm getting the sneaking suspicion it's the same person using a few different screen names).
Equally, Marcel would be just as liable at law for assault and battery as Cliff because the "provocation defense" you describe is not a legally valid one. The law doesn't care who "provoked" whom. The only defense permissible would be if Marcel were acting in self defense against an imminent and intentional physical attack by Ilan, and I'm afraid holding a camera does not meet that standard.
As more of these defenses of Marcel get posted the more they seem to support my hypothosis of racsim toward Cliff. Not a single person has yet to credibly address the double standard treatment of Cliff. I would have much more sympathy for the anti-violence sentiment being expressed on this site if there was an equal demand for Marcel's (and possibly Sam's) disqualification.-COLLAPSE
It's ridiculous to compare Marcel shoving the cameraman to Cliff's assault on Marcel, because one was an unprovoked attack while the other is a person who's merely responding to an unprovoked attack. Let's not forget that the "cameraman" was one of Marcel's tormentors (Ilan). And Marcel only shoved him because they wouldn't leave him alone and he wanted to get away from them.
I lost all...+READ
It's ridiculous to compare Marcel shoving the cameraman to Cliff's assault on Marcel, because one was an unprovoked attack while the other is a person who's merely responding to an unprovoked attack. Let's not forget that the "cameraman" was one of Marcel's tormentors (Ilan). And Marcel only shoved him because they wouldn't leave him alone and he wanted to get away from them.
I lost all respect for Joyce when I heard this interview. This wasn't a harmless prank. Cliff put Marcel in a full-nelson and lifted him off the floor. The full-nelson is banned in amateur wrestling because you can break a person's neck if you do it wrong. Nothing funny about that at all. That's why Cliff is getting such a negative reaction. Racism has nothing to do with it.-COLLAPSE
People,
No one on this site is seriously suggesting that Cliff didn't deserve to go home. Can we please get past that point? Cliff's actions were unacceptable and he was rightly kicked off show.
What is questionable however is the level of persecution and outrage as proportional to the incident, which let's remember was done in an idiotic joking manner and did not result in bodily injury...+READ
People,
No one on this site is seriously suggesting that Cliff didn't deserve to go home. Can we please get past that point? Cliff's actions were unacceptable and he was rightly kicked off show.
What is questionable however is the level of persecution and outrage as proportional to the incident, which let's remember was done in an idiotic joking manner and did not result in bodily injury (aside from Marcel's stated rug burn).
When the reaction so outweighs the incident, and when there is not an equal reaction to other's use of violence (esp. Marcel's punching the camera person), it's hard not to question the double standard and what else is going on here. Particularly suspect are these repeated references of disgust toward Joyce's supposed "flirtation" with Cliff. There is a hatefulness and intolerance to these comments that I find very odd and very unsettling.
The only other thing I can conclude that might be motivating this level of persecution (if not racism) is that certain people posting on this site have once been victims of violence in the past and are using Cliff to publicly project all their outrage onto. If that is the case, I think it is unfortunate as Cliff does not deserve that and in its own way that alone is a form of domination and bullying toward an undeserving person. With the utmost respect, I would suggest getting some professional help if that is the case.-COLLAPSE
Joyce, you should be ashamed or yourself...this is the first interview I've heard of yours,and if I didn't know better, I'd think your a lame college interviewer...
Think of this...you are in a deep sleep, and someone-with 100lbs on you-yanks you out of bed, grabs you by your neck and holds you down, and then puts you in a half nelson, just because they want to shave your head. ?????
Ands what...+READ
Joyce, you should be ashamed or yourself...this is the first interview I've heard of yours,and if I didn't know better, I'd think your a lame college interviewer...
Think of this...you are in a deep sleep, and someone-with 100lbs on you-yanks you out of bed, grabs you by your neck and holds you down, and then puts you in a half nelson, just because they want to shave your head. ?????
Ands what do you do during this interview??? Laugh and giggle and blow the whole thing off...you should be ashamed of yourself.
Cliff has been heading this way since day one. Physically, mentally and emotionally he has bullied his way through the competition.
Get a grip..he deserved to go.-COLLAPSE
The treatment of Cliff is not racist, have folks forgotten that on the 2nd episode a white man was sent home packing his knives for faiing to return the case of unpaid for lychees?
To Legaleagle and Montecore
This is not about race, at least not for me. Cliff was not the only one involved in this incident, even though he was the tool used to control Marcel because of his large size and strength. I hold Ilan, who held the camera, and egged on Sam and then Elia to clip Marcel's hair, equally responsible and he should have been disqualified, along with Cliff, and I would...+READ
To Legaleagle and Montecore
This is not about race, at least not for me. Cliff was not the only one involved in this incident, even though he was the tool used to control Marcel because of his large size and strength. I hold Ilan, who held the camera, and egged on Sam and then Elia to clip Marcel's hair, equally responsible and he should have been disqualified, along with Cliff, and I would have been happy to see Sam and Elia given the boot over this, too. In fact, this is what Tom Coliccio, the head judge, wanted to do, but Production overrode his request, so the other three culprits get a Hawaiin vacation instead. So much for justice.
This was not a prank. It is a culmination of a consistent pattern of bullying and ostracization of one individual, both privately, and publicly in a business situation (competing for a title and prizes) where it was not possible for Marcel to escape from without forfeiting what he came to win. It was made clear to Marcel (and to the viewers) over and over again that these other people do not respect him. This was not buddies getting together fooling around--this was buddies ganging up on someone who they dislike to humiliate him. Bravo could have kept the bullying from escalating to this point if they had stepped in long ago and reminded them of the ground rules and insisted they behave with civility toward each other. Instead, they are relishing this drama, hoping it increases ratings, celebrating it, with a new featured online after show, hot shot photos, a poll during the attack episode that asks "Who hates Marcel the most?" with one of the choices being "me" (the viewer)--way to join in on the bullying, Bravo!
Because of their disparate sizes, Cliff could have seriously injured Marcel, even by accident, particularly if his judgement was impaired by drinking. Watch how he's putting pressure on the back of Marcel's neck while holding him in place. (You can see this on the recap video on Bravo's Top Chef website: http://www.bravotv.com/Top_Chef_2/videos/index.php?id=56563) If Marcel had struggled, it could have resulted in neck/back injury. Both Cliff and Marcel are fortunate that this did not happen.
BTW, it has been determined that Bravo changed the timeline of events of that evening. Through screen caps of the video, you can see Elia on the right side of the room as Marcel escapes from the group. She is bent over laughing into her hands, WITH A HEAD FULL OF HAIR (no headband). You also see her smiling/laughing after she stands up. Ilan and Elia shaved their heads AFTER the attack on Marcel, with Elia doing an insulting imitation of Marcel. Read an excellent recap of this at Amuse-Biatch's blog, entitled "The View of Elia Aboumrad's Still-Grassy Knoll; Was Ilan Hall the Only "Shooter"? " dated 01/19/07 (scroll down the page) at http://amuse-biatch.blogspot.com/
Also, in a recent interview with Las Vegas Weekly, Marcel states there was more to the incident. After waking him, picking him up, and pinning him down and then releasing him, Cliff follows him into the room Marcel goes into and then starts throwing candy bars at him. That's when Marcel decides to lock himself into the bathroom for the night. http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html
One message board poster said that there was some damage to one of the doors that you can notice when Tom comes in to talk to everybody (I haven't confirmed it for myself yet), but perhaps the frat pack decided to try to break into the room where Marcel was in after the assault and that's when he went into the bathroom.
These cook-contestants aren't sorry for what happened to Marcel. They're sorry they were caught at it.
People who have been on the receiving end of bullying very rarely look at these incidents as 'pranks' or 'jokes' or 'all in good fun'--that seems to be the perspective only of the perpetrators and their friends and those who have never been a victim of such acts.
And if you can't tell Joyce is flirting with Cliff and fawning all over him during this interview, then I don't think you're paying attention. I'm used to CHOW's Top Chef interviewers being sycophantic to the guest interviewees, but this was the worst example so far.
(Does anyone know how I can remove my first post? I accidentally posted the same basic message twice.)-COLLAPSE
There totally is a lynch mob mentality to this "Clippergate" scandal. And for those posting on here that are so offended by Cliff's actions, why have you not commmented on Marcel clearly PUNCHING the camera person during the episode? Guess a white-boy-gastronomist's assault and battery is not the same as a black man's assault and battery.
Thaliaselene,
I hear what you're saying but disagree that there would have been equal outrage if Elia had done this. The reality is that Cliff got drunk, did something stupid that seemed motivated by idiotic humor rather than hate or psychosis. He apologized in a manner that I and I'm guessing most other viewers found sincere, and he was rightly kicked off show.
Yet that seems not enough for...+READ
Thaliaselene,
I hear what you're saying but disagree that there would have been equal outrage if Elia had done this. The reality is that Cliff got drunk, did something stupid that seemed motivated by idiotic humor rather than hate or psychosis. He apologized in a manner that I and I'm guessing most other viewers found sincere, and he was rightly kicked off show.
Yet that seems not enough for people on this site and on certain messageboards. I'm sorry but it seems like a very hateful lynch mob mentality coming through with some of these comments that I find really unsettling. And the bizarre offense expressed in some of the comments here about the interviewer's flirtatiousness with Cliff seems to underscore that racist/lynch mob perception.
Reality TV brings out a very judgemental and scary side to people I think.-COLLAPSE
Agree with other posters here that reaction to Cliff seems racist. No other contestants were treated like this on this site or other blogs,message boards.
I signed up with this website just so I could comment on this awful interview.
Cliff committed assault and battery. Period.
Joyce's giggling throughout the discussion and trying to minimize the significance of the event and make excuses for it and suggest that Marcel had it coming to him is contemptible, at the very least.
It was disgusting to listen to her suck up to Cliff that way and...+READ
I signed up with this website just so I could comment on this awful interview.
Cliff committed assault and battery. Period.
Joyce's giggling throughout the discussion and trying to minimize the significance of the event and make excuses for it and suggest that Marcel had it coming to him is contemptible, at the very least.
It was disgusting to listen to her suck up to Cliff that way and all I kept thinking is that after the interview, she probably offered sexual favors to him to top off her displays of admiration for him.
A reality check is sorely needed for Joyce. Read viewers comments on the blogs and message boards to get a better understanding of what normal people are thinking.-COLLAPSE
After reading these comments I expected to hear an interview analgous to one between Stalin and Pol Pot. Instead after listening to it I'm struggling to understand why people on this site are so horrifically outraged. There seems to be a vitriol to these responses that makes me question whether there's some underlying racism here. I agree that Cliff should not have put hs hands on Marcel, but it...+READ
After reading these comments I expected to hear an interview analgous to one between Stalin and Pol Pot. Instead after listening to it I'm struggling to understand why people on this site are so horrifically outraged. There seems to be a vitriol to these responses that makes me question whether there's some underlying racism here. I agree that Cliff should not have put hs hands on Marcel, but it seemed to be a joke gone too far rather than an act of hateful violence - while not an excuse for his behavior the distinction is significant in terms of judging a person's character - as many on this site seem very quick to do. I'm also wondering (as Montecore did) why Trotski,MrSuzBaker and the like didn't have a similar reaction to Michael threatening to beat up Tom Colichhio...or when Frank threatened to beat Marcel "so bad that his mother wouldn't recognize him"...or when Sam threatened Marcel at the supply store??? All of these acts could conceivably fall within the legal definition of "assault," yet why is it ONLY when a black man behaves in a threatening manner that it prompts these reactions? Seems racist to me.-COLLAPSE
Cliff is his own worst enemy, he was so close to making it to Hawaii, and he F's it up by manhandling Marcel in a very ugly manner. My husband and I were both disgusted by Cliff's actions, and the inaction of the other three contestants.
TC1 has helped the careers of Leanne, Dave, and the winner Harold. TC2 will only help whomever is deemed the winner in Hawaii. I so loved the trio of Leanne,...+READ
Cliff is his own worst enemy, he was so close to making it to Hawaii, and he F's it up by manhandling Marcel in a very ugly manner. My husband and I were both disgusted by Cliff's actions, and the inaction of the other three contestants.
TC1 has helped the careers of Leanne, Dave, and the winner Harold. TC2 will only help whomever is deemed the winner in Hawaii. I so loved the trio of Leanne, Dave and Harold, I cannot at this point say that I really care about any of the remaining contestants.
Sam cannot take any negative comments on his cooking, he even argued that had a well known chef created the watermellon and cheese dish, that chef would have been lauded, he incited Frank to get in Marcel's face, and he lost it in public at the restaurant supply store. Ilan is a fine cook, but he is as immature as Marcel, and the comments he made at the Seven Deadly Sins dinner re: cherries were not necessary. Marcel is immature with his people skills, but he showed that he is much more of a man than those who attacked him, the dude even forgave Cliff. Elia should have stopped the boys, but she did not.
I also give a huge dose of fault to Bravo, for shifting the series from food to showcasing immature behavior. Joyce is dilussional if she really believes that TC2 is all about food and not personality! To add even more fuel to the fire, I checked out the Bravo website and clicked onto the preview of next weeks TC, guess what, the teaser showed Marcel "getting into it" with Elia and Ilan. As we all know the edited version we see on t.v. often does not match up with the teasers, but come on Bravo step in and clean up this mess you gave us.
Last season I was so inspired by so many of the dishes by the talented chefs. This season has been an embarassment to watch.
Mia, you are my Top Chef!-COLLAPSE
So, um, I guess if Marcel deserved to get his head shaved for having "ridiculous hair," rape victims must be dressed like they wanted it, right? Reality check: in the real world, what Cliff did would have gotten him arrested and charged with assault and battery. A VICTIM, and that's what Marcel is in this case, NEVER deserves what happened to them. How much did Bravo pay you for the PR spin? Way...+READ
So, um, I guess if Marcel deserved to get his head shaved for having "ridiculous hair," rape victims must be dressed like they wanted it, right? Reality check: in the real world, what Cliff did would have gotten him arrested and charged with assault and battery. A VICTIM, and that's what Marcel is in this case, NEVER deserves what happened to them. How much did Bravo pay you for the PR spin? Way to sell out any credibility as a journalist with that bullsh*t interview.-COLLAPSE
Joyce, you lost me with this interview. I know that you have to be reasonably objective when interviewing people, but the fact that you were so glib about what amounted to an assault? Major credibility loss there. (And anyone who says "Come on, it was a prank" needs to a) put themselves in Marcel's shoes and think of how they'd feel and b) ask a lawyer what constitutes "assault.") Blogging Top...+READ
Joyce, you lost me with this interview. I know that you have to be reasonably objective when interviewing people, but the fact that you were so glib about what amounted to an assault? Major credibility loss there. (And anyone who says "Come on, it was a prank" needs to a) put themselves in Marcel's shoes and think of how they'd feel and b) ask a lawyer what constitutes "assault.") Blogging Top Chef, Amuse-Biatch, Chef Colicchio and the other judges have gone on record to voice their disgust over such unprofessional behavior, yet here you are, giggling with Cliff. I only hope that some other interviewer gets to talk to Ilan, Sam, and Elia - and asks the much-needed "What were you thinking?!" question.-COLLAPSE
Welcome the the gates of Hell, Joyce, with that interview.
As Tom Colicchio said: The whole thing brought to mind that famous quote, "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
Just as you have done, Joyce. Nothing.
I no longer need to listen to you. You have no cred.
But you still have plenty of time to apologize and make amends.
Joyce, WTF?? I've liked all your interviews until Cliff's. "The horror of it all" and "I would die" regarding your comments about production cameras in the loft early in the morning, but then trying to get Cliff to co-sign YOUR BS (golfer/wrestle move, etc.) about the "incident". You're A Freak. Nausiating with a smattering of flirtiness. All of them who were there that night said it was stupid...+READ
Joyce, WTF?? I've liked all your interviews until Cliff's. "The horror of it all" and "I would die" regarding your comments about production cameras in the loft early in the morning, but then trying to get Cliff to co-sign YOUR BS (golfer/wrestle move, etc.) about the "incident". You're A Freak. Nausiating with a smattering of flirtiness. All of them who were there that night said it was stupid and went too far, but you don't think so?. Your total justification for that, not Cliff who took responsibilty, was bizarre. You'd fit right in with that bunch of idiots. If you did that and were called out for it, you'd think it'd be okay? You're definitely a kiss ass fluffernutter.-COLLAPSE
Ohmigod, this reality-TV-viewing-holier-than-thou-judgmentalism is so tiresome. I agree that I Cliff was being a drunk macho jerk by wrestling Marcel down (even if it was sorta hot), but it is not something i would characterize as an assault worthy of pressing charges...or worthy of getting so worked up about on this site. It seemed to me like it was a bunch of stressed out people gettting drunk...+READ
Ohmigod, this reality-TV-viewing-holier-than-thou-judgmentalism is so tiresome. I agree that I Cliff was being a drunk macho jerk by wrestling Marcel down (even if it was sorta hot), but it is not something i would characterize as an assault worthy of pressing charges...or worthy of getting so worked up about on this site. It seemed to me like it was a bunch of stressed out people gettting drunk and doing stupid things...like I'm so sure no one on this site has ever done. And yes it would have been different had it been Elia. So what? BTW - where's the similar rage over Michael threatening to kick Colicchio's ass earlier in the season?-COLLAPSE
I really don't get what went down with this. Cliff might have been in danger with this week's cooking results, but there is nothing cute or funny about assault. Terry S.'s point is well-taken: had it been a female in particular, or all of any group (male, white, black, etc.) doing it to a different type of person, it would have sparked (reasonable) outrage. Marcel may be a dork, but the bullying...+READ
I really don't get what went down with this. Cliff might have been in danger with this week's cooking results, but there is nothing cute or funny about assault. Terry S.'s point is well-taken: had it been a female in particular, or all of any group (male, white, black, etc.) doing it to a different type of person, it would have sparked (reasonable) outrage. Marcel may be a dork, but the bullying that has marked this season should have been stopped by the producers before it came to this. Shameful.-COLLAPSE
Was Joyce Slaton smoking crack? What would her reaction be if it was Elia that was being held down by Cliff?
I do not understand how you can think that holding someone down in a full nelson is deserved and understandable. If someone were to do that to me I would press charges. That is beyond I'm drunk and all about spite.
how the $%^& can anyone who saw season 1 say season 2 is better? i dont care about any of these contestants - i work in the industry and i have no respect for any of these "cooks."
some of these interviews are ridiculous.
Way to join the anti-Marcel pile-on, Joyce!! You totally have the right idea!! Marcel totally deserved to get his head shaved for having hair like that!! Cliff totally got robbed when they kicked him off for wrestling Marcel to the ground and holding him in a full-nelson (as you pointed out, he has that hair! It must be shaved! By force!)!!
But seriously, sucking up to contestants who behaved...+READ
Way to join the anti-Marcel pile-on, Joyce!! You totally have the right idea!! Marcel totally deserved to get his head shaved for having hair like that!! Cliff totally got robbed when they kicked him off for wrestling Marcel to the ground and holding him in a full-nelson (as you pointed out, he has that hair! It must be shaved! By force!)!!
But seriously, sucking up to contestants who behaved deplorably is pretty much just as deplorable. I'm dreading hearing you verbally high fiving Ilan for his "at least I'm not a virgin" comments.
Your interviews are terrible.-COLLAPSE