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Into the ongoing debate on the value of culinary school versus real-world kitchen experience, add this recent SF Weekly article about the California Culinary Academy, the San Francisco–based school accused of using high pressure and deceptive sales tactics to recruit students.
Many former students say admissions representatives told them whatever they thought the applicants needed to hear to get them to sign on the dotted line. The students … were told that a CCA degree virtually guaranteed them a well-paying job at an elite restaurant. In fact, the majority went on to low-paying kitchen jobs — and many soon left the food industry entirely in search of salaries that would pay off their student debt.
It’s a messy pot of soup, with former admissions reps admitting they misled students in order to meet enforced enrollment quotas, students being allowed to continue in the program regardless of achievement level (as long as they can qualify for loans they will be admitted, advanced, and graduated), and a for-profit company that took over the school in 1999 now facing lawsuits from former students who feel they have been deceived. Federal officials are looking into the situation.
But the real victims are the students and graduates, now highly in debt. Many of them cannot afford to cook—the low wages won’t allow them to make their loan payments. Those who try to pursue work in kitchens soon realize that their expensive degree doesn’t hold water. One former student says that “when a chef saw the name CCA on his resume, her eyebrows would lift, or a smile would flit across her face.”
Even early CCA grads seem to be clear that the school has changed and the quality hasn’t been retained. Chef at the Ritz-Carlton’s Dining Room, and an alumnus of the program himself, Ron Siegel says he probably wouldn’t hire a CCA grad today. “The last one I took from there, the person came one time, and no-showed after that.”
Pastry chef Shuna Fish Lydon, who has strong feelings about culinary schools, is delighted that CCA has come under scrutiny. “The last time I heard someone’s CCA story I became red with rage,” she writes. “I do not unilaterally hate culinary schools. I hate their lies. … I hate that they tell prospective students that they will be chefs after a few months of basic cooking education!”
Over at Accidental Hedonist, Kate Hopkins is asking some harder questions: Why haven’t more of these students done their own research? “Have people become so blinded by what they read in the Magazines and what they see on Food Television, that they have become blind to the realities of the industry?”
A current CCA student is frustrated at the “very bad publicity the school just received,” though she admits, “I can definately [sic] see where they could get the impression they did.” Having just completed her first set of CCA classes, she writes, “As long as I can get a job then I’ll be happy.”
I am a current student at the Culinary Institute of America in the BPS program. When I applied to the school I was told many of the same stories told above. I would be well paid and well educated they said. The CIA is "the worlds premier culinary college." Or so they say. Since finishing up my AOS degree and moving on to the Bachelors program I have run into no small pile of disappointments. The...+READ
I am a current student at the Culinary Institute of America in the BPS program. When I applied to the school I was told many of the same stories told above. I would be well paid and well educated they said. The CIA is "the worlds premier culinary college." Or so they say. Since finishing up my AOS degree and moving on to the Bachelors program I have run into no small pile of disappointments. The school is unorganized and uncooperative. I have had high school history teachers teaching junior level college classes and psychology classes about Scientology. Few of the chefs or professors show any real interest in the students or their courses. Here I am taking out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans for a bachelor’s degree that provides nothing beyond freshman year general education classes. I have been looking around for graduate programs in agriculture and viticulture. I have found no programs whose prerequisites would be fulfilled by the classes offered at the CIA. I was told I would be getting a great education and preparation for further education. Alas. Now that I'm almost three years into this school I feel as though I am stuck with my decision. I have been keeping a blog about my time I think anyone considering the school should read.
www.myciatime.blogspot.com-COLLAPSE
Several culinary institutes are working since years to provide quality culinary education to the aspiring chefs. Students just require a high school diploma or GED to enroll in the institute. The programs offered cover all the field of culinary industry.
http://www.culinaryschoolsprograms.com/
Wow. Not knowing about this sleazy school's tactics, just yesterday I signed up online to receive some information.
After sending me 2 emails in the course of an hour, someone called to ask for my address (I had already provided it online) and "set up an appointment to talk to an admissions person. Reluctantly, I signed up for an appointment for the next day. Immediately, I got another call...+READ
Wow. Not knowing about this sleazy school's tactics, just yesterday I signed up online to receive some information.
After sending me 2 emails in the course of an hour, someone called to ask for my address (I had already provided it online) and "set up an appointment to talk to an admissions person. Reluctantly, I signed up for an appointment for the next day. Immediately, I got another call from an admissions person asking for my address for the again, and then asking me all kinds of questions, pushing me to ask him questions, and and telling me take down his number.
When I told him I would probably lose his number and all I really wanted was a simple school catalog, he pouted and threw a bit of a needy tantrum saying why would I lose his number? Normally prospective students have lots of questions and all he was trying to do was help. Sheesh. Was I dating this guy or something? It was all very uncomfortable.
The wost of it all was when he offered his "expert" critique of the culinary schools in NY - "some are halfway decent, but most are pretty bad and unimpressive." It felt like I just saw this guy do a dirty deed.-COLLAPSE
i am a 2003 cca grad who move to new orleans to work in the industry. after katrina i landed back in the bay area. it has been almost impossible to land a job, even with my experience based on cca being on my resume. i have a catering buisiness, have done t.v. shows, cooked in top restaraunts in new orleans it all seems not to matter.the admision reps at cca sold a 90% + success rate as far as...+READ
i am a 2003 cca grad who move to new orleans to work in the industry. after katrina i landed back in the bay area. it has been almost impossible to land a job, even with my experience based on cca being on my resume. i have a catering buisiness, have done t.v. shows, cooked in top restaraunts in new orleans it all seems not to matter.the admision reps at cca sold a 90% + success rate as far as full time positions paying $50,000.00 + anually, as well as loan repayments around 150.00-200.00 dollars a month. the opposite is all to true. i still cater but i am a full time garbage man paying $1000.00 monthly towards my loan.
is there anyone who knows of people like me willing to file suit for misrpresentation please let me know-COLLAPSE
Please make no mistake, The CCA had and most likely still has some very talented instructor , the Administration side has never been up to par since it was sold in the early 80's and Executive Chef Roberto Gerometta ran the show , then afterward it become only sa money machine and a teaching institution second and sadly I have been part of it, up until a point it became pretty unethical and yes...+READ
Please make no mistake, The CCA had and most likely still has some very talented instructor , the Administration side has never been up to par since it was sold in the early 80's and Executive Chef Roberto Gerometta ran the show , then afterward it become only sa money machine and a teaching institution second and sadly I have been part of it, up until a point it became pretty unethical and yes it took the Students to go down the street and protest,sadly around the corner is the Federal building anyone ever questioned what was going on ? . NO .
You in the other hand have a choice , make it .-COLLAPSE
I am glad I wandered upon this site. My daughter is prepapring to transfer to San Diego State University in the Hospitality and tourism management next year. Her long term goal is to run her own catering and event planning business. We intended to augment that proper education with some professional education at a culinary school. We had sort uncomfortable initial contacts with with CCA sales...+READ
I am glad I wandered upon this site. My daughter is prepapring to transfer to San Diego State University in the Hospitality and tourism management next year. Her long term goal is to run her own catering and event planning business. We intended to augment that proper education with some professional education at a culinary school. We had sort uncomfortable initial contacts with with CCA sales people. She has had a tour of the Art Institute in San Diego. This came across as another high priced vocationall school. We would greatly appriciate any recommendations ofr more useful and hopefully cost effective culinary education options. See also is currently pursuing an intern type position at a local catering/bistro cooking school operation.-COLLAPSE
As a former Chef Instructor at the CCA , these are the peoples in my view which have not been told the truth.
1 the students , at one time they were told to expect to earn in excess of 100 k a year, this is true but for an extreme limited amount of Chef and after many years of hard word {slight detail}
2 the shareholder by being presented stage classes .
3 the Chef instructor forced to...+READ
As a former Chef Instructor at the CCA , these are the peoples in my view which have not been told the truth.
1 the students , at one time they were told to expect to earn in excess of 100 k a year, this is true but for an extreme limited amount of Chef and after many years of hard word {slight detail}
2 the shareholder by being presented stage classes .
3 the Chef instructor forced to graduate even F students the moto , Chef you have them for 2 weeks give them a passing grade , the student is happy , the administration is happy , the student counselor leave you alone , the Boss is Happy and the shareholder make money and everyonr is happy ,you have a job and your wife is happy . As far as the students who care after 2 weeks tehy are gone then they graduate and what ever they do with their life is their problems .
Once I questioned the change in the curiculum to accomodate the profit {student used as free labor for the paying school guest} and I clearly said when we do this we could compromise the State And Federal Licence , I was told no because we are telling them we are changing the curiculum and they will approve it . We can do it with you or without you , they did it without . I had 30 years professional carreer and contributed graetly in manny business been awarded among other 5 diamonds AAA 5 Stars Mobil , I did not enter one day contest but a lifetime and never failed in 3 countries . my best advice to anyone contemplating enrolling at the CCA take a calculator I believe the tuition is in the 10 of thousand of dollars , divide it by $11 dollars the average hourly wage you expect after graduation , include the length of time you will stay in the profession {CCA record is 15% retention after 5 years the other wish they had bought a trip around the world,do not forget financing interest in the equation they also never mention this fact and when all compiled you can put a nice down payement on a house or business .
CCA was started with a great idea , they had some outstanding Chefs somewhere along the line under CEC and the previous administration it got rotten behind belief . By the way if you think you student have been taken advantage it took them 10 years or so to hand over my 401 k to my broker , I know of one teacher which Family after Her premature death tried to settle the estate and was never able to . The Brokers I had to try to roll over that 401 k were fom AG Edward , Prudential Securities , Wachovia Securities and finally Smith Barney ......yes it is also extremely illegal and they got away with it , I sincerely wonder the validity of all their filing with the IRS security and exchange .
NOW you Do know who you are dealing with , save yourself the trouble check out Johnson and Wales , the CIA and other teaching institution with a track record .
Anyone with more info , speak out .-COLLAPSE
As someone who applied for a job at CAA, I can tell you just how disgusting their practices are... I applied for an "admissions rep" position, and when I got a call back, excitedly hurried down to the school to have my interview. I was aghast to be clumped in a room with 30 other people (you apply, you get called in) for a power point and hard sell on a postion that amounted to "outside sales."...+READ
As someone who applied for a job at CAA, I can tell you just how disgusting their practices are... I applied for an "admissions rep" position, and when I got a call back, excitedly hurried down to the school to have my interview. I was aghast to be clumped in a room with 30 other people (you apply, you get called in) for a power point and hard sell on a postion that amounted to "outside sales." The power point discussed first and foremost, quotas for admission, and various tactics to boost numbers. Included: Call yourself a career counseler and target HS students who have few collegiate prospects, or who seem disinterested in pursing higher education... Assuring potential students and parents that financial aid was readily available, and that high paying jobs out the door would make paying back easy.... Not letting up and doing everything you could to make sure students signed on the dotted line. Disgusting. Even the "interviewer" knew it. He said, flat out, "if you're not comfortable with these tactics, then sales at CAA isn't for you, and you're free to leave at the break." You can bet, I booked it!-COLLAPSE
I graduated form the CIA in 1999 with an AOS degree in culinary arts. At the time, the school had fairly tough admisison requirements--I worked in the industry for almost 2 years before they let me enroll. This was helpful to me financially (working helped me save up some money) and professionally (I got to see firsthand how fucked-up and low-paying the resturaunt world can be).
To my...+READ
I graduated form the CIA in 1999 with an AOS degree in culinary arts. At the time, the school had fairly tough admisison requirements--I worked in the industry for almost 2 years before they let me enroll. This was helpful to me financially (working helped me save up some money) and professionally (I got to see firsthand how fucked-up and low-paying the resturaunt world can be).
To my understanding, the CIA has since relaxed these requirements, meaning it's easier for a well-funded but naiive 18-year-old to waltz in off the street and into a class. Which is a shame. Even non-profit culinary schools are hungry for students bankrolled with loans or Mom and Dad's kindness.
I was lucky--my parents paid for my schooling--but lots of the people I graduated with are still paying off loans. For many--not just those in the culinary field--this is the reality of higher education, period. Also, at the time a CIA degree was not accredited, and since I don't have a regular university degree, I have a hunch that I have been hampered in my job searches over the years (I work in the media field, not in commerical foodservice).
I don't regret going to culinary school, and I loved my years at the CIA. And there are graduates who go on from culinary school to well-paying jobs in a number of fields. But I think for most culinary school grads, it takes years of trying things out and paying your dues before you really find your stide in your career. What else can you expect? That's life.
A smart person visits schools, reads up, talks to graduates, and explores the realities of the industry before enrolling in a program. Cooking school is just one way to approach a culinary career. It's not fair for a school to dupe students into an expensive education, but every student needs to look out for him or herself.
Being a CIA grad has both opened and closed doors for me, but ultimately, it's up to me--not my cooking school degree--to be persistent and prove myself to an employer.-COLLAPSE
Seriously, Culinary School Hopefuls, if you want to take the plunge, go to an accredited school, not-for-profit school like The Culinary Institute of America or Johnson and Wales. When you get done, you have a real associate or bachelor degree (in case you want to go back to school or leave the industry), and while in school, you are elgible for federally funded student loans, pell grants, et....+READ
Seriously, Culinary School Hopefuls, if you want to take the plunge, go to an accredited school, not-for-profit school like The Culinary Institute of America or Johnson and Wales. When you get done, you have a real associate or bachelor degree (in case you want to go back to school or leave the industry), and while in school, you are elgible for federally funded student loans, pell grants, et. al.-COLLAPSE
Does this fall under a deceptive business practices guideline?
After cheffing in SF for fifteen years and having fired 90% of the CCA grads that I hired, I put together a very comprensive class syllabus for teaching not necessaruily cooking skills, but restaurant skills and offered it to the CCA. Never heard back...shows you where their priorities lie...$$$
This kind of validates what I have been afraid is happening. I had a kid that worked for me part time while going to WCI--and I must quickly say that I do not know much about the school--but I do know that my employee was pouring heavy financed money into his education--tens of thousands of dollars--and in the back of my head I kept thinking "How long is is going to take to pull that money out of...+READ
This kind of validates what I have been afraid is happening. I had a kid that worked for me part time while going to WCI--and I must quickly say that I do not know much about the school--but I do know that my employee was pouring heavy financed money into his education--tens of thousands of dollars--and in the back of my head I kept thinking "How long is is going to take to pull that money out of the income you make in the back of the house?". He is 20 and I am sure his parents want the best for him. What work was he doing to help with the finances? Working for me at Walgreen's--the pay was better than what he could get part time in a kitchen...hmmmm...-COLLAPSE