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Dear Helena,
The other night I was sitting at a bar having a glass of wine and catching up with my girlfriend, and this guy leaned over to listen to my conversation, clearly eavesdropping. He let out chuckles from time to time. We tried to ignore him. Then he leaned over and abruptly told us that he thought we were "boring." He was clearly drunk, and the bartender could see he was bothering us. Was it the bartender's responsibility to cut him off?
—Stay Out of My Conversation
Dear Stay Out,
Some people act like oafs whether or not they have had anything to drink, and the bartender is powerless to do anything about that. But bartenders are obliged to stop serving alcohol when customers are obviously trashed. For one thing, according to "dram shop law," bars and/or individual bartenders may be held liable if a drunk harms a third party after leaving the premises. (Exact laws vary by state.) And of course drunks can cause plenty of harm while they're still at the bar. Mike Ryan, head bartender at Sable Kitchen & Bar in Chicago, recalls a recent guest who drank seven or eight vodka martinis, then offended two female customers by suggesting a threesome.
So how does a bartender decide when someone has had too much? That decision shouldn't be based on quantity consumed, says Ryan. "There are no set rules, like people can only have five drinks. ... Some people are wasted after one cocktail; some can drink seven drinks in a row and still stand up." So the poster in this Chowhound thread was right to be annoyed: The bartender seems to have cut him off purely because he had consumed three drinks in a little over an hour.
In fact, the cutoff should be based on behavior. The symptoms of extreme drunkenness are pretty obvious: slurred speech, glassy eyes, and the loss of fine motor control.
Curtailing a customer's booze intake is a three-step process:
1. Anticipate. The bartender can ward off trouble—especially if he has seen the customer overdo it before—by taking a really, really long time to serve them. If the bar is busy, says Ryan, "they usually find someone to talk to and forget they've ordered a beer." If the bar is half-empty, it's trickier to explain why you're taking half an hour to make a vodka tonic.
2. Deflect. "Saying, 'No, you're trashed,' is a good way to provoke them," says Ryan. Instead of a direct refusal, Ryan prefers to "slide over a glass of water or Coca-Cola and say, 'Why don't you try this for now?'" Jeffrey Morgenthaler, bar manager of Clyde Common in Portland, Oregon, says he has to cut someone off about once a month; he serves coffee or food on the house, or offers to pay for a cab home.
3. Stand firm. Most drunks take the hint, says Ryan. "Usually if they order beer and get water, they say, 'Am I that drunk?' and I say, 'Yeeeeeah, sorry.'" But every so often, "they're feeling great and they just want to keep the party going." Some of the worst offenders are wedding guests, who frequent Ryan's bar because it's adjacent to a hotel. These people may have been drinking since lunchtime. "I've had to physically throw people out a couple of times. ... I've had to cut off the father of the bride because he was drooling on himself. He said, 'I spent all this money in the hotel. I demand a drink.' I was like, 'Well, you got what you paid for: You're trashed.'"
"he serves coffee or food on the house, or offers to pay for a cab home."
"'Am I that drunk?' and I say, 'Yeeeeeah, sorry.'"
I hope some bartenders and managers read this. There is no reason to apologize (as in the above) to a drunk. Why pay for his food?
Will there really be a return on investment paying for HIS cab fare?
They should be handled tactfully, of course, but I've found that...+READ
"he serves coffee or food on the house, or offers to pay for a cab home."
"'Am I that drunk?' and I say, 'Yeeeeeah, sorry.'"
I hope some bartenders and managers read this. There is no reason to apologize (as in the above) to a drunk. Why pay for his food?
Will there really be a return on investment paying for HIS cab fare?
They should be handled tactfully, of course, but I've found that being direct yet friendly "Look, you seem to be having fun, so how about a soda water with a lime (looks like a gin & tonic) so you can hang out a bit and relax a while -- I'd not like you to leave and take a chance on a DUI or getting hurt -- I need to consider my other customers, you understand, and I'm sure you would like me to consider you as well, right" (& etc).
If the bartender had noticed that the ladies were being bothered and suggested the 'botherer' return to his seat, or "looks like these ladies are enjoying their conversation. What say we let them just enjoy themselves" ... do it!
Here's the main point: By the time bartender/manager notices, the other customers have already been annoyed. Those customers will return (and those ladies will tell their friends about the great service) and they appreciate your being on top of things. THOSE are your good customers -- protect them.
The best words I've ever heard "Oh yeah? Well, I'm never coming back in here again!!!"
Fine -- but everyone else in the room will.-COLLAPSE
I used to work in a very high class resteraunt and after dinner, I took on the extra duty of serving in the lounge. If a customer is drunk, call the manager of the establishment. One man was so bad, we put him (and his driver up in the hotel which was attatched to keep him safe). He was well off, young and his Dad had provided him with a caretaker.
1) this was obviously two women sitting at the bar, not a guy and his 'girlfriend'. women refer to their female friends as girlfriends, even if they are straight.
2) they could/should have just turned their back on the guy or given him an icy stare. directly confronting or starting an arguement with a drunk is rarely a good idea.
3) the bartender or manager is responsible for keeping the peace...+READ
1) this was obviously two women sitting at the bar, not a guy and his 'girlfriend'. women refer to their female friends as girlfriends, even if they are straight.
2) they could/should have just turned their back on the guy or given him an icy stare. directly confronting or starting an arguement with a drunk is rarely a good idea.
3) the bartender or manager is responsible for keeping the peace in the bar. If the guy was being overtly rude, loud, or otherwise harassing the ladies then the bartender has a reason to intervene. Just because he was laughing and told them they were boring is hardly harassment.
4) to those who said the ladies should keep private conversations private: AMEN. in bars, on the bus/train/subway, in a crowded restaurant is no place to discuss your boyfriends rash, your doctor's visit, your mother's incontenance, or your son's sexual awakening (to name a few conversations i have overheard.)
5) should the bartender have cut the guy off? probably, but that is the bartender's business not the other customer's unless they are being inappropriate to a level that annoys the other patrons. if they had a problem and didn't want to deal with it, then they could have asked the bartender (in words or otherwise - an eyeroll works well.)
all in all i think Helena answered the question rather well.-COLLAPSE
Maybe I'm not as nice as these too ladies. I would have told this drunk to piss off long before he had a chance to say anything.
When I get super drunk, I just challenge people to a dance off, for I am the Disco King.
The guy at the bar was being rude, but from the story he wasn't being handsy or trying to move in. An ass to be sure but unless he was behaving in a manner that would harm himself or others I don't think the bartender needed to cut him off.
In Pennsylvania, and probably other states, if a bartender serves a person who is visibly intoxicated, then the bartender is breaking the law. The person being served doesn't have to do anything wrong - could be the most polite drunk person in the world, but if he is served, then it's a violation.
Another restaurant staff post.
Helena, we are supposed to cut people off BEFORE they get trashed. The bartender in the thread was exactly right. Waiting until somebody is already drunk is a liability. And the laws are clear, you serve them the drinks, they hurt themselves, you go to jail.
As far as what it means to cut somebody off, in some bars that might mean kicking them out. Often...+READ
Another restaurant staff post.
Helena, we are supposed to cut people off BEFORE they get trashed. The bartender in the thread was exactly right. Waiting until somebody is already drunk is a liability. And the laws are clear, you serve them the drinks, they hurt themselves, you go to jail.
As far as what it means to cut somebody off, in some bars that might mean kicking them out. Often someone who is cut off will leave out of indignation/a desire to try another bar. But at a neighborhood bar with regulars, it most likely means putting a coke in front of them and not serving them any more booze, leaving them to listen to other people's conversations and insult them. The letter writer is clearly an insecure loser who could not stand up for himself in front of his own girlfriend.
I do think it's interesting that this is like the 4th post in a row about whether restaurant employees are doing the write thing. This is supposed to be an etiquette column, not a complain-about-the-restaurant-industry column. I can't wait for next week when somebody writes to complain about how the hostess didn't stand up straight enough or some crap, and Helena demonstrates even less understanding about how restaurants work.-COLLAPSE
Lmao at the tale by Mike Ryan in the response. Wait, you mean to say a drunk guy a in bar bluntly hit on women? Heavens to Betsy! (sounds like someone took Vicky Xina Barca a little too literally, lol)
I'm with the people saying the letter writer should grow a pair. If you want to run to the recess monitor when there's a big mean (verbal only!) bully, stay in the playground, not where grown ups drink. I've never heard of someone being thrown out of a bar for words alone, and let's hope to god political correctness doesn't ever go that far.
@jeanmarieok, if it's a restaurant there's very...+READ
I'm with the people saying the letter writer should grow a pair. If you want to run to the recess monitor when there's a big mean (verbal only!) bully, stay in the playground, not where grown ups drink. I've never heard of someone being thrown out of a bar for words alone, and let's hope to god political correctness doesn't ever go that far.
@jeanmarieok, if it's a restaurant there's very different etiquette, and if he touches you, well, feel free to deck him. Neither of which were the case here, though.-COLLAPSE
This exact scenario happened to me this weekend, and ended with my husband threatening to call the police if the restaurant didn't remove him from the restaurant. He not only was interrupting, but he kept grabbing my husband's arm, over and over. While we were trying to eat. So the manager finally removed him. And then he tried to get into his car, so my husband called the police anyway. Funniest...+READ
This exact scenario happened to me this weekend, and ended with my husband threatening to call the police if the restaurant didn't remove him from the restaurant. He not only was interrupting, but he kept grabbing my husband's arm, over and over. While we were trying to eat. So the manager finally removed him. And then he tried to get into his car, so my husband called the police anyway. Funniest part of all - it was a Mexican restaurant at 7:30 at night. The bartender should have caught onto it when the man ran thru the restaurant singing happy birthday with the waitstaff. Twice.-COLLAPSE
Rather than waiting for the bartender to come to his rescue, the letter writer should have stood up for himself and more importantly for his girlfriend and politely, but firmly, told the drunk to please keep his opinions to himself.
The bartender has a hard enough job without having to stand up to rubes that you cannot stand up to yourself.
It was the bartender's responsibility to tell him to leave you alone (if it was clear to him he was bothering you). Cutting him off is an entirely different matter. I am interested what would be so boring that a stranger would interrupt just to say how boring it was. Incredibly rude, sure, but also kind of hilarious.
So how boring was your conversation?
Dear SOMC, drunk or not NO conversation held in public is private. And your first course of action should have been to tell the intruder to MIND HIS OWN BUSINESS! If that did not work, then alerting the staff/mgmt should have been your go to move. If both of those failed, then you could have removed yourself from the equation. It is at no time your responsibility to judge the sober/drunk quality...+READ
Dear SOMC, drunk or not NO conversation held in public is private. And your first course of action should have been to tell the intruder to MIND HIS OWN BUSINESS! If that did not work, then alerting the staff/mgmt should have been your go to move. If both of those failed, then you could have removed yourself from the equation. It is at no time your responsibility to judge the sober/drunk quality of a stranger. For all you know he could have been under the influence of any other number of things non-alcohol related OR simply an ***Hole-COLLAPSE
i feel that the conversation you where having was just boring, so if he is leaning over to listen to your conversation, he is in his total right to do it, if you want to have an intimate chat with a grilfriend here is a piece of advice got to a starbucks, or a restaurant, dont go to a bar where drunk people are at, maybe he tought you where attractive and wanted to add to your conversation. So...+READ
i feel that the conversation you where having was just boring, so if he is leaning over to listen to your conversation, he is in his total right to do it, if you want to have an intimate chat with a grilfriend here is a piece of advice got to a starbucks, or a restaurant, dont go to a bar where drunk people are at, maybe he tought you where attractive and wanted to add to your conversation. So this proves my point, your conversation was so boring even a drunk could not handle it, and all they want is to get in your pants. So just leave us drunks at a bar and let us do our thing lady.-COLLAPSE
The vehicle rule is a difficult one to enforce, because the bartender doesn't know how you intend to get home. In a place with very low blood alcohol limits it could mean that a bar tender would not be able to serve alcohol at all, if one drink is likely to put someone over the limit.
It is the bartender's duty to cut you off once (s)he feels that you could no longer drive a vehicle safely. Whether or not you will be driving a vehicle is not the bartender's buriness.
When I tended bar if a customer was bothering other customers (regardless of sobriety) I would ask them to leave. I've always worked places that reserved the right to refuse service to anybody. Of course deflection and other tactics are used first but it's better for everybody except the obnoxious patron if they are removed.
Oh, no. Helena posted about alcohol again. Break out the rude, obnoxious cries of alcoholism again, folks. (And yes, I'm thinking of a few of you in particular.)
All you need to do as a patron, is ask the bartender or the bouncer for assistance. As a former bartender, it is difficult to know when to step in because not all annoying patrons are drunk.
It matters, are you in a place with nice leather booths and white tablecloths? or are you in a joint with bent cuesticks and duct taped barstools? Everything's revelant.
Imo when the patron offers to arm-wrestle you for a drink.