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Dear Helena,
Every time I go home to my parents' house, the state of their kitchen drives me nuts. They are crazy food hoarders. They often have moldy bread, packets of spaghetti from 1992, and assorted bits and pieces in murky Tupperware containers. Their freezer is always chock-full. This drives me nuts, and I get an uncontrollable urge to clean out their fridge, freezer, and pantry. But when I do, they get annoyed. One time I tossed a block of Valrhona chocolate that was ancient and beige and powdery, and my mom was pissed. Is it rude to clean out your host's kitchen, and how can I convince them that contrary to their beliefs, no food stays good forever?
—Mold Patrol
Dear Mold Patrol,
The rise of food hoarding began with advances in canning techniques in the late 19th century, says Harvey Levenstein, author of Paradox of Plenty: A Social History of Eating in Modern America. In the 1950s, people thought that canned food would virtually displace fresh, and that in the future, people would barely cook at all. (Little did they know that many people would revert back to doing their own canning.)
Frozen food became popular in the late 1920s/early 1930s. At first, explains Levenstein, people looked down their noses at it, associating it with the fishmongers' practice of freezing leftover fish at the end of the week to make it last until Monday. But then Clarence Birdseye dramatically improved the quality of frozen food by introducing flash-freezing and waxed-cardboard packaging. More importantly, says Levenstein, Birdseye banished any lingering associations with old fish by relabeling his products as "frosted" food, which sounded classier.
Since then, food has become increasingly cheap, and with the rising popularity of wholesale price clubs like Costco, it has become even cheaper. No wonder people are hoarding, whether it's canned soup, "frosted" dinners, or flats of vitaminwater.
Some may ask what's wrong with stocking up? After all, if disaster strikes, such as a major hurricane, you won't go hungry. But stocking up easily leads to overstocking, and the result is food waste, a growing problem.
Unfortunately, you can't clean out your parents' pantry without permission, any more than you can take their old sweaters to Goodwill without telling them. And you'll never succeed in motivating them to de-clutter the pantry on their own. Hoarding has all kinds of complex motivations, and probably has its roots in childhood. You're not equipped to untangle the psychology behind it, and if you attempt to do so, you'll only unleash anxiety and rage.
Ignoring best-by dates might gross you out, but let me reassure you that this habit is unlikely to be toxic. Scott Hurd, director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Risk Assessment and Hazard Identification in Foods of Animal Origin at Iowa State University, says: "The sell-by date ... is a tool for inventory control [by the retailer] more than anything else; it has virtually nothing to do with food safety." The only generally reliable way to figure out if something is edible is to give it a good sniff, explains Hurd. "Canned food will probably keep almost forever until the can actually starts to decompose, as long as there are no holes or rust spots."
And what if you encounter an ingredient that could actually be dangerous to consume—beans in a rusted can or perhaps a bag of flour infested with moths? My advice is to stuff it deep, deep into the trash. Trust me, your parents have no idea what they actually have in their pantry, so they won't even notice that it's gone.
My parents are the same. Their refrigerator and freezers are packed full and most items sit there for months and are thrown away eventually. Where as I have a few fresh items to last a few days as I go the farmers market and CSA coop about twice a week.
I think this is a form of hoarding. I think it just something about their generation or maybe age that they feel they have stock up in case of...+READ
My parents are the same. Their refrigerator and freezers are packed full and most items sit there for months and are thrown away eventually. Where as I have a few fresh items to last a few days as I go the farmers market and CSA coop about twice a week.
I think this is a form of hoarding. I think it just something about their generation or maybe age that they feel they have stock up in case of an emergency.-COLLAPSE
We were poor when I grew up. Now, I never went to bed hungry, but my Depression-era parents did, in fact, have to occasionally.
When I cleaned out their house after my father's death and mom's hospitalization, all I could think of was how much I'd like to have 'em back in that messy house, alive and well.
Personally, the mentality's rubbed off on me a little bit. I can tell you right now...+READ
We were poor when I grew up. Now, I never went to bed hungry, but my Depression-era parents did, in fact, have to occasionally.
When I cleaned out their house after my father's death and mom's hospitalization, all I could think of was how much I'd like to have 'em back in that messy house, alive and well.
Personally, the mentality's rubbed off on me a little bit. I can tell you right now there's some meat and cheese in my freezer that's over a year old -- and canned stuff that I've had in our other house, the one we moved out of in '06!
Only recently has a good friend, who's really, really fastidious and now lives with us, pointed out to me that after a few times, the angst of throwing away stuff I used to rationalize as "still good food" will diminish. Yep, it took intervention from someone else to cure me of this fault. I'm no hoarder, but I find it hard to throw stuff away.-COLLAPSE
About three years ago, my wife brought an unopened block of mozzarella cheese home from her now 97 year-old mother's freezer. I opened it and it looked and smelled fine, so I shredded it for a baked macaroni dish I was making. I tasted it before I added it to the dish. It was acrid and horrible. The date on the package was 1985. Hoarding, or waiting for armageddon? You tell me.
This lady is right, just mind your own business. You may call it "hoarding" now, but these old folks will be the best prepared when we descend into the Starvation/Cannibal Wars of 2015.
My mother was in a transitional care unit for three weeks after a small stroke. I used the opportunity to clean out her apartment. Got rid of 6 large trash bags of long-expired food (and as long as I was at it, did she really need all those empty shampoo bottles? Empty dental floss containers?) It took her a while to realize that some of her things were gone, and she was upset (and still yells at...+READ
My mother was in a transitional care unit for three weeks after a small stroke. I used the opportunity to clean out her apartment. Got rid of 6 large trash bags of long-expired food (and as long as I was at it, did she really need all those empty shampoo bottles? Empty dental floss containers?) It took her a while to realize that some of her things were gone, and she was upset (and still yells at me if she is mad about something else) but it was completely worth it. Now if I could just get her to look in the cupboard and freezer when she makes her grocery list, it would prevent her from buying yet another package of chicken breasts that will sit on the bottom of the freezer for two years.-COLLAPSE
Think of the positives
1. The less they spend on new food, the more money in the will
2. The food roulette ups chances of cashing in sooner
3. Once they go to the food pantry in the sky, you can come in and clean.
I understand Mold Patrol totally, as you don't dare eat anything from my parents house without asking 'how old is this?'. Seriously, I found a bag of bread in the freezer from 1998 (and it looked it)! It's a losing battle. To avoid the whole topic, I just refuse to eat there and they know why.
Its hard to watch this sort of thing grow unabated in anyone's kitchen, but with parents, the "depression" mentality is a hard one to shake. Few of us want to conciously waste things, but when people are on fixed incomes, they want every bite of whatever they have purchased/cooked. Many are still cooking family-sized meals, even though they live alone, because they don't know any other way.
I...+READ
Its hard to watch this sort of thing grow unabated in anyone's kitchen, but with parents, the "depression" mentality is a hard one to shake. Few of us want to conciously waste things, but when people are on fixed incomes, they want every bite of whatever they have purchased/cooked. Many are still cooking family-sized meals, even though they live alone, because they don't know any other way.
I live with a man in his 50s who had been hoarding empty jars when I moved in. 2-3 empty jars for storage/repurposing is ok, but after finding the first 40, I knew "we" had a problem. He's like this about food, too. (And yes, I AM grateful that he will eat any leftovers until they are gone.) This summer our fridge died, and before the new one came to replace it, you should have heard the howling when I pitched anything that had been opened, even without peeking under the foil to see how bad it looked. It was positively cathartic to let these things go, and I assure you, he got over it. (He's still looking for those jars, however). This is the same man, however, that goes through the pantry on a regular basis with a Sharpie, and hand-writes in BIG digits the expiration date on just about everything. Back in the utility room where the jars used to be, you can now find a box full of electrical cords with plugs on one end and nothing on the other. You never know when you will need one (or a dozen).
I do concur with the last paragraph; stuff it deep, and make it go away. Indeed, they'll probably never miss it. You may need to do this in small doses -- a full scale purge is traumatic. A retired friend of mine is doing this right now - his wife (a Costco junkie) is still working for a few more months, and her pantry is bursting with stuff they'll never cook/use. Each week the husband takes a few (expired only) items out and pitches them just before trash day. The wife has not (yet) caught on.-COLLAPSE
I have a nutrition degree and have taken food science and microbiology. One of the specific things I remember learning was the pathogens still grow, although at a much slower pace, when products are frozen. We examined a variety of pathogens in frozen and fresh foods, and the frozen foods had quite a bit of bacteria after a few months. I wouldnt suggest keeping meat for longer than 6 months. It...+READ
I have a nutrition degree and have taken food science and microbiology. One of the specific things I remember learning was the pathogens still grow, although at a much slower pace, when products are frozen. We examined a variety of pathogens in frozen and fresh foods, and the frozen foods had quite a bit of bacteria after a few months. I wouldnt suggest keeping meat for longer than 6 months. It may not kill you, but better safe than sorry, especially with the elderly.-COLLAPSE
F-off yuppie foodites. If the folks actually need some help with the foodstuff shelves ask them for help or just accept the usual "birthday check".
If you were in a position of real hunger, some of this nasty things on the shelves would start looking real good right now.
There's a big difference between having old but edible packages of food sitting in the pantry and saving moldy bread and open cans of soup for months. It's the difference between being thrifty or disorganized and hoarding.
True hoarding is pathological, and the reasons for it are complex and deep. It's not logical. People who hoard perceive value in things others see as trash. They have...+READ
There's a big difference between having old but edible packages of food sitting in the pantry and saving moldy bread and open cans of soup for months. It's the difference between being thrifty or disorganized and hoarding.
True hoarding is pathological, and the reasons for it are complex and deep. It's not logical. People who hoard perceive value in things others see as trash. They have reasons for everything they save, and it's difficult to convince them otherwise.
Take a look at the book Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things, written by two psychologists who have been studying and trying to figure out how to help hoarders.
http://www.amazon.com/Stuff-Compulsive-Hoarding-Meaning-Things/dp/015101423X-COLLAPSE
Bravo, Kymmie0862! Great minds think alike!!
Did somebody else already suggest a stealth raid? Perhaps during one of those midnight raids of the pantry, it might be possible to replace the aged canned or pasta goods surreptitiously? This requires a multi-step approach: taking an inventory, shopping on the sly and then replenishing the offending items. With this approach, one might ensure safety without offending the hosts. My 90-year old...+READ
Did somebody else already suggest a stealth raid? Perhaps during one of those midnight raids of the pantry, it might be possible to replace the aged canned or pasta goods surreptitiously? This requires a multi-step approach: taking an inventory, shopping on the sly and then replenishing the offending items. With this approach, one might ensure safety without offending the hosts. My 90-year old in-laws have cookies in their panty that remain unopened since the mid-90s - so I completely empathize with the contributors to this post.-COLLAPSE
Ahh! Think ahead
What you could do is get say your parents’ favorite cut of beef but get a bunch take it over to their house and just rave about the “Deal” you got (which just so happens to end the day you supposedly got the deal). Then open their freezer and then bemoan that they don’t have the space for it would they mind clearing out the stuff that is getting old for the “Deal” stuff. You can...+READ
Ahh! Think ahead
What you could do is get say your parents’ favorite cut of beef but get a bunch take it over to their house and just rave about the “Deal” you got (which just so happens to end the day you supposedly got the deal). Then open their freezer and then bemoan that they don’t have the space for it would they mind clearing out the stuff that is getting old for the “Deal” stuff. You can do this for just about anything. The trick is to replace what they have and then put it in neatly. What they really want to see is a full pantry and when you toss stuff out you make the pantry empty and makes them anxious and angry.-COLLAPSE
I'm no food hoarder, and I'm often on duty to make food out of what is most near spoilage. But the idea of clearing out a fridge without consent is horrible manners. Sounds like the fussing of a spoiled brat who can't accept that the people around them don't follow the same kitchen dogma as they do. Leave their old crud and be grateful you only deal with it during visits.
ps re Dorree, the reason that cupcake frosting tasted so bad was not because it was old - canned frosting is a pretty unpalatable product even when fresh, and if you use the decorating frosting tubes, that stuff is bitter. its quick enuf to make your own simple buttercream and avoid this problem.
While a sense of "ick" has saved a lot of lives over the centuries, I find that its overdeveloped or uninformed in some people. For example, food thats in the freezer for too long doesnt get unsafe - some will last for years if properly sealed but so long as it remains frozen, it never becomes a health risk, only unpalatable. Canned food on shelves generally lasts forever, though again the...+READ
While a sense of "ick" has saved a lot of lives over the centuries, I find that its overdeveloped or uninformed in some people. For example, food thats in the freezer for too long doesnt get unsafe - some will last for years if properly sealed but so long as it remains frozen, it never becomes a health risk, only unpalatable. Canned food on shelves generally lasts forever, though again the quality will deteriorate over time. I recently opened a ;ar of pickled pears I had canned 20 years ago. The pears had darkened and were not very good but they were still edible and didnt pose a risk to health - the seal was still intact. Chocolate gets powdery on the surface, but its still fine to use. Dried mushrooms will last for years, unless bugs get into them (rare). There are often small moths and bugs in flour, grains or beans. Often these can be strained or washed out and the food used (in some cases, not)
Moldy items are another matter. Sometimes when its just on the surface or a small spot, it can be removed and the remainder of the food can be eaten. In other cases, spoilage has moved through the container Let your nose, particularly, and tastebuds be your guide.
True hoarding is a pathology, but for most people saving - of food as well as $ and other things - is engrained as part of their lifestyle and is an important human trait (got the race through a lot of long winters, crop failures and economic hard times). Unless your parents are truly endangering themselves or you, you should leave them alone.-COLLAPSE
I am so guilty of keeping things too long. I recently made cupcakes and wanted to frost them. The frosting, I knew, had been in the cupboard for more than a year. I used it anyways and it was so awful. I have learned a lesson. I try to keep current but when visitors come so infrequently, I guess I don't keep track as I should. When the family came around more, I used up stuff so fast. Am trying...+READ
I am so guilty of keeping things too long. I recently made cupcakes and wanted to frost them. The frosting, I knew, had been in the cupboard for more than a year. I used it anyways and it was so awful. I have learned a lesson. I try to keep current but when visitors come so infrequently, I guess I don't keep track as I should. When the family came around more, I used up stuff so fast. Am trying to buy only as needed now.-COLLAPSE
My grandmother used to keep bitsa this and that in the fridge and did manage to give herself a mild dose of food poisoning. It isn't 100% busybodyism to want to clean up what's truly hazardous. But it would be better if the pitch and purge was done as a joint operation with input from the parent.
With stuff in the freezer it might be best just to suggest that things really should be eaten...+READ
My grandmother used to keep bitsa this and that in the fridge and did manage to give herself a mild dose of food poisoning. It isn't 100% busybodyism to want to clean up what's truly hazardous. But it would be better if the pitch and purge was done as a joint operation with input from the parent.
With stuff in the freezer it might be best just to suggest that things really should be eaten pretty soon "while they are still good, so you don't waste the money you spent on them".-COLLAPSE
Yep, Helena's spot on, my sister and I have both done this at our parent's house when they were alive. Dad came of age in the depression, and saved everything. It was pretty bad growing up. They never missed that 30 year old can of Metracal.
When I go home and see dreadfully old stuff in the freezer or pantry, I tell my Mom that it looks/sounds good (e.g., lady fingers that were kept on a pantry shelf for years and were literally as hard as hockey pucks; stale and freezer-burnt baking) and she usually offers it to me (during my university years she got used to me coming home to grab a few needed items from the pantry. Once I get back...+READ
When I go home and see dreadfully old stuff in the freezer or pantry, I tell my Mom that it looks/sounds good (e.g., lady fingers that were kept on a pantry shelf for years and were literally as hard as hockey pucks; stale and freezer-burnt baking) and she usually offers it to me (during my university years she got used to me coming home to grab a few needed items from the pantry. Once I get back home, it's straight to the trash. I do this with old broken appliances, as well.-COLLAPSE
I think there is a BIG difference between cleaning out someone's fridge and their pantry/freezer. Especially an elderly parents.... If there is moldy food in the fridge - it's now a saftey issue.
Maybe it's just me, but lately I find your columns seem to be the work of an uptight busybody.
Really? You want to clean out SOMEONE ELSE'S pantry? How obnoxious! You want to suggest home tours are tacky? Give me a break.
No wonder people need coaching in "Manners." The very folks who profess to know what constitute "good manners" have zero common sense.
My grandparents have stores of non-perishables and always a bag of frozen left overs, I usually have rice beans and canned tomatoes to make a meal.And dried mushrooms too! Having food like that around is handy as long you aren't as crazy that. I really get worried about the mushrooms sometimes then I toss them. Great Depression did it my grandparents. I kinda think we do need to get back to their...+READ
My grandparents have stores of non-perishables and always a bag of frozen left overs, I usually have rice beans and canned tomatoes to make a meal.And dried mushrooms too! Having food like that around is handy as long you aren't as crazy that. I really get worried about the mushrooms sometimes then I toss them. Great Depression did it my grandparents. I kinda think we do need to get back to their frugality if we want to get through this one.-COLLAPSE
I think my mom hoards fod because she grew up in Korea after the war. Food was scarce and she had a couple brothers and sisters to look out for - and no mother. Hoarding makes her feel better, safer. Do I really begrudge her this feeling because her house isn't the way I want it?
@ Kaimuki: Helena did not encourage anyone to clean out their relatives' kitchens. In fact she explicitly encouraged the opposite and gave reasons for that, so I fail to see your point.
year ago, my mother had very deep pantry shelves. When she didn't see something near the front, she simply bought a couple more of it. So one day when I decided to clean out the pantry, I found 27 cans of tuna (and no, there were no warehouse stores back then). Also found an exploded can of what used to be peaches ... black tar covering the back of a lower shelf. Blech!
While keeping old and dangerous food is never a good idea, having a supply on hand is a good idea. I know most of us think we can just run out to the store any time, even if there is a natural disaster. That's not always the case. My family was iced in for a week one winter. Besides isn't it a whole lot safer to stay home after a disaster or even a minor storm rather than making a run to the...+READ
While keeping old and dangerous food is never a good idea, having a supply on hand is a good idea. I know most of us think we can just run out to the store any time, even if there is a natural disaster. That's not always the case. My family was iced in for a week one winter. Besides isn't it a whole lot safer to stay home after a disaster or even a minor storm rather than making a run to the store?
Plus, it gives security. My husband and I have a list of items to "stockpile". Advantages? Well, I take advantage of sales; buying in bulk can save money; and dealing with unexpected money shortages. My husband was out of work for over a year and a half. Because we had a ready supply of food and also grew and canned our own food, we didn't miss a bill. The kids didn't even realize we were down to one income.
My mom does much the same thing and a wonderful opportunity came from it. Short version - a girl at my brother's work was having difficulty making ends meet due to a recent divorce. Mom was able to box up a month's supply of food and give to her.
Sooooo...having a supply of food on hand is great. Your parents may not do things your way, but they are prepared. Maybe the whole process just needs to be better organized. Rather than throwing out and judging, help them develop a system of choosing which items to keep on hand and a system of rotating stock. There are lots of places on the web that can give you advice on this.-COLLAPSE
After a pretty good run Helena messed up totally on this one. Wake up and get with the program Helena,
My sis and her husband made the mistake of cleaning out the parents refrig 7 years ago. They have never been forgiven. I let the parents know I had gotten food poisoning from the old food kept in the house... I am now banned from visiting. Helena, people like this don't just keep cans of...+READ
After a pretty good run Helena messed up totally on this one. Wake up and get with the program Helena,
My sis and her husband made the mistake of cleaning out the parents refrig 7 years ago. They have never been forgiven. I let the parents know I had gotten food poisoning from the old food kept in the house... I am now banned from visiting. Helena, people like this don't just keep cans of food. They keep half a can of opened cream of mushroom soup - for months and months. Please do some research on hoarding before dispensing useless and incorrect information. There must be some qualified professionals who would be willing to talk to you.
Once again your level of ignorance is frightening - and dangerous.-COLLAPSE
Just leave your parents alone. They aren't hurting anyone and you gave no examples of their food being harmful to anyone. If they haven't changed by now, they aren't going to. So just let them be.
I personally hate it when my parents don't keep THEIR house the way I like it. Rude!
I unfortunately suffer from a lot of host-judgement. Don't like how my host decorates, don't like how dressed down they are because "they had to cook", don't like that they used canned salsa and made a mess cooking. Thinking it makes me judgmental, saying anything would make me an asshole.
Wouldn't it be easier to not visit your parents' house?
I don't get why you would hoard alot incase of a hurricane? In Southern homes, allot of people don't have basements? Unless u hold on to it in the tub, isn't it going to fly away?
Perfect answer. I've done it all. Brought out all the outdated and ancient foodstuffs for them to decide upon. Super secret late nite raids and garbage day throw outs. The truth is, if it is old, they probably have forgotten that they have it. Indeed, they will buy more cans of those putred green beans to put in front of the ones they already haven't used. Just dump the stuff and don't mention...+READ
Perfect answer. I've done it all. Brought out all the outdated and ancient foodstuffs for them to decide upon. Super secret late nite raids and garbage day throw outs. The truth is, if it is old, they probably have forgotten that they have it. Indeed, they will buy more cans of those putred green beans to put in front of the ones they already haven't used. Just dump the stuff and don't mention it.-COLLAPSE